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To: Mariner
That was the reality on the ground before the first shot was fired...excepting the political formalities of such.

No it wasn't. Ukraine had the inherent right of any sovereign nation to join other nations in collective self-defense. Putin is demanding it surrender that right.

And even on the ground, the pro-Russia separatists only controlled portions of Donbas and Luhansk. Russia's proposal has them more than doubling that territory.

20 posted on 03/15/2022 12:43:49 PM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin ( .)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

“Ukraine had the inherent right of any sovereign nation to join other nations in collective self-defense”

Sure, they have the right to try.

But nobody wants to join them.

So they are getting their ass kicked.

Because Russia always held the trump card. And that card is the real willingness to undertake existential war to ensure Ukraine remained in their orbit. In spite of their “inherent right of any sovereign nation to join other nations in collective self-defense”

Nobody else on the planet is willing to undertake existential war over Ukraine.

Nobody.

So Ukraine remains in the Russian orbit and there’s not a damn thing anybody can do about it.


27 posted on 03/15/2022 1:19:20 PM PDT by Mariner (War criminal #18)
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