Sunday Morning Talk Show Thread 6 March 2022

FOX NEWS SUNDAY (Fox Network): Guest anchor Shannon Bream: Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.); Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa); Oksana Markarova, Ukrainian ambassador to the U.S. Panel: Katie Pavlich; Jonathan Swan, Axios; Catherine Lucey, Wall Street Journal; Mohammad Elleithee, former spokesman for the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton.

MEET THE PRESS (NBC): Hosted by Chuck U. Toad: Secretary of State Antony Blinken. Former Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley; former NATO Supreme Allied Commander James Stavridis; author Fiona Hill (“There Is Nothing for You Here: Finding Opportunity in the 21st Century”). Richard Engel reporting from Ukraine and Kelly Cobiella reporting from Poland. Panel: Huffington Post writer and Black Nationalist Eddie Glaude Jr.; Stephen Hayes, political analist and Neocon; Senior Washington correspondent for NBC News Hallie Jackson; Robin Wright, the New Yawka—just another easily forgotten group of angry Leftists slinging anti-American balderdash.

FACE THE NATION (CBS): Margaret Brennan anchors: Secretary of State Antony Blinken; Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Burbank); Oksana Markarova, Ukrainian ambassador to the U.S.; Kristalina Georgieva, International Monetary Fund; and, we DON’T know if, as always, Former FDA commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb (but I think because the drivebys have moved on from COVID to Ukraine, he’s not on).

THIS WEEK (ABC): Hosted by Little Georgie Steponallofus: Ambassador to the U.N. Linda Thomas-Greenfield; Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.). Panel: Jonathan Karl(marx); Donna BrazileNut; Chris Christie; Julie Pace, Associated Press. A preview of Hulu’s “Two Men At War” (Stephy’s propaganda biopic about Putin and Zelenskyy)–more Fat RINOs and Left-wing Propagandists!

STATE OF THE UNION (CNN): Anchored by Jake Toe-Tapper: Secretary of State Antony Blinken; Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.); President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen; Michèle Flournoy; Rep. Mike McCaul (R-Texas); former CIA Director David Petraeus; Nadya Tolokonnikova, Pussy Riot.

SUNDAY MORNING FUTURES (FNC): The Show to watch! Hosted by Maria Bartiromo: Former Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley; Rep. August Pfluger (R-Texas); Rep. Jake Ellzey (R-Texas); Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.); Stephen Miller, former senior advisor for policy and White House director of speechwriting to President Donald Trump.

“EXCEPT—those low prices started in 2019, BEFORE we even knew how to say Covid”

And people were so happy that all our Trump encouraged production and oil independence had given us such low gas prices. Until, the laws of economics ruined everything by causing all those producers in high cost production areas like N. Dakota to quite pumping and drilling. Not economic if it cost more to pump and drill than you were getting paid for your oil and natural gas. Darn those laws of economics, they can really kill our happy!

Moderate increases were happening because more driving was happening as Covid faded. Crazy increases as Putin and war fears are hitting and OPEC is refusing to increase production. Our own higher cost producers should start pumping again, and if it looks as if prices will stay high, will start drilling again. Oil is now over $100 a barrel. A while ago I read that $80/ barrel was the economic go/no go price. Anyone know the current incentive price? Let’s hope no A bomb nut ruins it all.

There is corruption and then there is venal corruption.

“First, Zelensky and his team started promoting the idea that he was “like any other businessperson in Ukraine.” This statement was repeated by everyone on the presidential team in response to the revelations of Zelensky’s offshore holdings, suddenly exposed in the Pandora Papers.”

“The disclosures contained in the Pandora Papers shook many societies around the globe this fall. The leaked documents were analyzed by a consortium of journalists, who found “financial secrets of 35 current and former world leaders, more than 330 politicians and public officials in 91 countries and territories, and a global lineup of fugitives, con artists and murderers.”

“To the surprise of the general public, Volodymyr Zelensky’s name appeared on the list of offshore company holders. The documents are testament that Zelensky and his partners (now the heads of security agencies and part of the executive branch of government) owned offshore companies in the British Virgin Islands, Cyprus, and Belize. These companies were used to “defend his business in Ukraine,” the president explained. Prior to the 2019 election campaign, Zelensky had turned over control of his shares to his current chief aide and head of the country’s Security Service, but Zelensky’s family continues “receiving money from the offshore [business operations].”

Ever look at the map of Poland over the centuries? Man, that goes from half of Russia to NOTHING in 1783 to back on the map in 1920.

Dan, weren’t you born in Eastern Europe? Some of those countries there were Roman provinces, totally different from their original inhabitants (I’m thinking Dacia, Dalmatian, Thracia, Moessia, Pannonia), then overrun by, in order, Goths, Huns, Slavs, Germans, Mongols, Bulgars and lastly Turks.

Before Ukraine there was Scythia, land of barbarian horsemen, like Conan, then became Kievan Rus (founded by Vikings!), and then after, part of the Mongols Golden Horde. Russia didn’t conquer it until the 14/1500s, and only got to Crimea in the 19th Century, wrestling it from the Turks. In Antiquity, Crimea was Greek, and the Roman, then Byzantium.

What a legacy!

Also, take England—First, Celtics/Picts/Britons, then Romans, then Saxons, Angles and Jutes, then Vikings and Danes, then Normans, who were Vikings, but became French somehow... Then finally, melded into England, land of the English...

Point is that we are elevating Zelensky to hero status and portraying Ukraine as a democracy.

Some are, but not all. Did we not support Stalin in WWII? Franco in Spain post WWII? Pinochet in 1973? Park in South Korea? Marcos in the Philippines?

You ought to know this, you were in State. We don't have friends, we have interests.

Still, Russia's invasion is something we have to oppose. It is not in our interests to have them swallow the Ukraine.

If Russia is a great power, we, as a great power need to keep her friendly, or at least not against our interests. Putin has invaded, not us. His choice, and yes, I believe it is in our interests to oppose this.

Besides, hasn't our foreign policy been promoting self-determination at the national level since 1919?

Why would we suddenly turn our back on that? It would be the change of the century.

I get the point that Ukraine government has been corrupt. But that word has been repeated endlessly on this forum. What is the end game? What do you think we should do? Join Putin? Urge him on?

Of course, I don't see you supporting any of that.

But it seems you want us to turn our back and walk away, stopping all the sanctions and weapons. That just isn't going to happen anytime soon. Realistically.

Some are, but not all. Did we not support Stalin in WWII? Franco in Spain post WWII? Pinochet in 1973? Park in South Korea? Marcos in the Philippines? You ought to know this, you were in State. We don't have friends, we have interests.

Precisely, which is why we should not get that involved in Ukraine. It is called realpolitik. I do take issue with the word "support" when it comes to your rogue's gallery of dictators and tyrants. We were protecting our interests and dealing with the recognized political leadership. If we used a moral litmus test on which governments we would deal with, it would be a very short list. The State Department does put out an annual human rights report on every country in the world.

Still, Russia's invasion is something we have to oppose. It is not in our interests to have them swallow the Ukraine. If Russia is a great power, we, as a great power need to keep her friendly, or at least not against our interests. Putin has invaded, not us. His choice, and yes, I believe it is in our interests to oppose this.

Oppose is one thing, declaring an unprecedented declaration of war on Russia to destroy their economy and currency is another. What is the end game? Why didn't we have the same reaction when the Russians took over Crimea? Or aiding the the separatists in Eastern Ukraine who the Ukrainians have been fighting for the past 8 years causing thousands of casualties? The Russian buildup on the Ukrainian border has been going on since last April. Did the Biden Administration want/facilitate the invasion?

John Kerry said he hoped the war in Ukraine would not affect Russian cooperation on climate change. We are working with the Russians on the Iran deal. We still cooperate with Russia on the ISS. We are buying Russian oil and not doing anything to affect the flow of oil to Europe. And we have not had an American Ambassador to Ukraine since 2019. WTF?

Great powers have spheres of influence. Russia considers Ukraine as part of its sphere of influence in much the same way that we treat the Western Hemisphere using the Monroe Doctrine. We have repeatedly intervened in Central and South America along with the Caribbean to protect our interests. Putin has recently raised the possibility of increased Russian presence in Cuba and Venezuela including missiles. I recommend reading Amb Jack Matlock's analysis of the situation in this Dec 2021 article that provides some historical perspective.

We can condemn the Russian invasion without escalating the incident beyond the point of no return. Calling for the assassination of Putin by US senators and even media personalities like Hannity and Levin are irresponsible. Emotion is leading us into places we will rue the day we went.

Besides, hasn't our foreign policy been promoting self-determination at the national level since 1919? Why would we suddenly turn our back on that? It would be the change of the century.

Come on, we are not turning our backs on self-determination. The issue is how far will we go to support it. Eisenhower didn't help the Hungarians in 1956, but he did condemn it. Similarly we did nothing when the Berlin Wall was erected or the 1968 Prague uprising.

I get the point that Ukraine government has been corrupt. But that word has been repeated endlessly on this forum. What is the end game? What do you think we should do? Join Putin? Urge him on?

Don't be silly. What we should be doing is telling Zelensky that he is fighting a losing battle that is destroying his country and killing his people. He should seek a negotiated settlement, which we can help him with. There is nothing wrong with conceding that Ukraine will not join NATO and will seek to be neutral. The carrot could be Western investment in Ukraine to rebuild the country. The stick would be ending the provision of weapons. The end game is a peace settlement. It might include the recognition of Crimea as part of Russia.

Our cynical leaders could care less about how many Ukrainians are killed. They are fighting a proxy war against Russia. Obama helped to overthrow the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014. Victoria Nuland was a central figure in that coup and now she is Deputy Secretary of State.

But it seems you want us to turn our back and walk away, stopping all the sanctions and weapons. That just isn't going to happen anytime soon. Realistically.

No, I want us to push peace and negotiation instead of encouraging further violence whose consequences have not been thought out. A destroyed shell of a country with millions of refugees scattered throughout Europe. Possible interruptions of energy and food that can affect the global economy. And a cornered Putin who will retaliate in ways we have not contemplated. What happens if we have a cyber event ten times the size of the Colonial pipeline? What will be our reaction?

We are forcing Putin into the arms of China. We have never faced such a formidable enemy.

I have continuously said we should not let the Ukraine join NATO, and it should be a buffer state between NATO and Russia. It that regard our goals are the same.

However, I still contend that Russia has gone too far with the invasion and must first stop killing people. Death and destruction need to stop now, before anyone else is hurt—whether Ukrainians or Russian conscripts. Each conscript killed devastates a Russian family, as given their spiraling demographics, there is on average only one child in each Russian family. Stop the violence first. That is as easy as a command from Putin to his generals right now.

Moreover, the USA, Russia and Ukraine already had an agreement under the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

Russia promised not to invade Ukraine. We kept our promise, Ukraine is not in NATO. The Russians broke the agreement.

It is up to them to change. Until then we are right to oppose them short of war.

While researching your question, I was reminded of some of the factors that formed my answer. The Cushing OK storage center was full, and ships were holding oil with no place to put it. So prices were falling and hitting historic lows. Elsewhere for precovid 2020 $45/barrel was reported as essential for Bakkan ND break even. This April 24, 2020 article highlights some of these points including Covid worries beginning impact with $37/barrel quoted as then current price: https://taxfoundation.org/historic-oil-price-burns-hole-in-state-budgets/

“Negative price on WTI crude oil is a historic first but has happened because the cost of extracting, delivering, and storing the oil outweighs the profit from selling it. The decline has been driven by a combination of a price war between Saudi Arabia and Russia as well as a lack of demand due to the coronavirus pandemic. Globally, demand is down 30 percent. The demand is key because some oil futures contracts are settled physically, which means that the owner of any contract will receive the physical oil. This fact added urgency to the market as May contracts, which traded at a negative value, expired on April 21. May contracts have to be settled in the delivery month (May) in Cushing, Oklahoma, where contract owners must take possession of the oil. However, refinery capacity across the country is down because demand is down, which means oil is simply sitting in storage in Cushing with no capacity to book any more local storage. Further, oil wells cannot easily be stopped without damaging the well, so production continues even when there is no demand.”

While searching for the answer to your question I came across this Jan. 27, 2022 article regarding Biden and leases. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/01/27/oil-gas-leasing-biden-climate/

“Climate advocates said they had expected Biden officials would find a way to slow drilling, either through litigation or by reopening the environmental review process for proposed lease sales — delaying them and possibly canceling them outright.Instead, the administration approved more than 3,500 oil and gas drilling permits in its first year, nearly 900 more than the Trump administration did in its first year, according to an analysis of federal data by the Center for Biological Diversity.

Last fall, Biden officials put 80 million acres in the Gulf of Mexico up for auction in the largest offshore oil and gas lease sale in U.S. history. While it sold only a fraction of that amount — about 1.7 million acres — it netted nearly $192 million and ranked as the most profitable offshore auction since March 2019. Before those leases could take effect, a federal judge invalidated the entire sale Thursday, delivering a victory to environmentalists. Judge Rudolph Contreras, of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, wrote in his opinion that the government had justified the sale using a flawed analysis, which assumed that the climate impacts would be worse if the acreage went unsold. “The Court believes that [the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management’s] error was indeed a serious failing,” Contreras wrote.

Dan Naatz, executive vice president of the Independent Petroleum Association of America, said in an interview that the administration “should be credited with moving forward with the drilling permits.”

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