[WMarshal]

"That isnt true. You need to read up on Ukraine history. They were their own nation in middle ages, then fell to the Mongols. They were divided among various european nation states and Russia for hundreds of years, ( by force not by choice) , then established their own country in 1917, then were forcibly conqured by the Bolsheviks and forced to become part of USSR in 1922. So any links to Russia were at the point of a gun."

Sorry but I have to burst your bubble. When it comes to "great power" politics it is "might makes right" and everything else is an illusion. If you want to take the Ukraine from Russia after over 300 years of the Ukraine being part of Russia then we will have to go to war with a the biggest nuclear power on the planet.

History is full of high-sounding platitudes and calls to virtue but, at the end of the day, might makes right.

At the end-of-the-day are both you and yours ready to pay the place in blood to rip Ukraine out of the Russian orbit?

[boxlunch]

I honestly dont know.

But if might makes right, when Russia shows up on Americas doorstep in 4 or 5 years after countries have capitulated one after another because of Russias nuclear threats, what will we do? Sign a “treaty” because we are afraid of nuclear war? . If they get away with bluffing and intimidating countries from acting ( and I agree right now it should be Europe stepping up to the plate), why would anyone think Russia would stop after Europe? What world dominating tyrant has ever stopped until forcibly stopped?