Russia Ukraine conflict 2022

The purpose of this post is to promote discussion of Ukrainian accession to NATO as a way to engage an aggressive neutrality in their local region.

Russia Ukraine conflict 2022 Conservapedia page https://www.conservapedia.com/Russia_Ukraine_conflict_2022

The Russia-Ukraine conflict of 2022 included reports by the liberal media that Russia -- which Leftists despite because it opposes the homosexual agenda and is pro-life -- would attack Ukraine on February 16, 2022, which did not happen.[1]

At issue is the Culture War as liberals in the West attempt to extend their agenda into Ukraine, which was formerly a member of the Soviet Union adjacent to Russia. Gay pride marches have been held in Ukraine in defiance of the conservative values in Russia. Suggestions of Ukraine even joining NATO, an alliance initially established to oppose the Soviet Union, have further suggested encroachment on the traditionally Russia-aligned nation.

Ukraine's president is a comedian and the nation is exploited by a small group of billionaire oligarchs.

References https://www.voanews.com/a/on-day-russia-was-meant-to-invade-ukrainians-go-about-their-affairs/6443905.html

Since the Conservapedia article references joining NATO, here is their NATO page

North Atlantic Treaty Organization (Redirected from NATO) https://www.conservapedia.com/North_Atlantic_Treaty_Organization

Under Barack Hussein Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, the Black African slave trade was restored by NATO in Africa.[1] The North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) is a military alliance initially founded in 1949 to combat the spread of communism in Central Europe from the Soviet Union, but has since become a promoter of globalism and the liberal social agenda.

Since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, NATO has departed immensely from its original purpose. Once a bulwark against Soviet communism, it is now a bulwark of globalism,[2] neoconservatism, Islamism, imperialism, and promoter of the homosexual agenda. President Donald Trump was highly critical of how the United States has been saddled with the bulk of the cost throughout its history while Europe has not paid its agreed upon mandated share of defense costs.

NATO is not "the world's policeman"; neither is it an enforcement arm or extension of the United Nations.

NATO's official website states its political motive under Orwellian language: "NATO promotes democratic values and enables members to consult and cooperate on defence and security-related issues to solve problems, build trust and, in the long run, prevent conflict."[3] Since the end of the Cold War, NATO has waged two wars of aggression, one against Serbia to carve out the state of Kosovo, and another in Libya which resulted in chaos and the return of the slave trade in Black Africans. Its current secretary is Jens Stoltenberg of Norway.

Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1992.[1] Ukraine applied to begin a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.[2][3] Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.[4][5] Amid the Euromaidan unrest, Yanukovych fled Ukraine in February 2014.[6] The interim Yatseniuk Government which came to power initially said, with reference to the country's non-aligned status, that it had no plans to join NATO.[7] However, following the Russian military invasion in Ukraine and parliamentary elections in October 2014, the new government made joining NATO a priority.[8] On 21 February 2019, the Constitution of Ukraine was amended, the norms on the strategic course of Ukraine for membership in the European Union and NATO are enshrined in the preamble of the Basic Law, three articles and transitional provisions.[9][10]

At the June 2021 Brussels Summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine would become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP) as an integral part of the process and Ukraine's right to determine its own future and foreign policy, of course without outside interference.[11] NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg also stressed that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine's accession to NATO, as we will not return to the era of spheres of interest, when large countries decide what smaller ones should do.[12]

According to polls conducted between 2005 and 2013, Ukrainian public support of NATO membership remained low.[13][14][15][16][17][18][19] However, since Russo-Ukrainian War and Annexation of Crimea, public support for Ukrainian membership in NATO has risen greatly. Since June 2014, polls showed that about 50% of those asked supported Ukrainian NATO membership.[20][21][22][23] Some 69% of Ukrainians want to join NATO, according to a June 2017 poll by the Democratic Initiatives Foundation, compared to 28% support in 2012 when Yanukovych was in power.[24]

Why would Russia allow a hostile military alliance position troops and missiles on its immediate border
***If you look at the maps on those ‘pedia pages, you see that Russia ALREADY has that. So... what’s yer point?

if it could prevent it?
***Naturally, that is exactly what Pootyput is trying to do, prevent it. And it is the democrap appeasement administrations that are enabling it. obambam admin: Ukrainian region of Crimea annexed by Russia. Trump admin: No movement whatsoever by poootyput into Ukraine. Biden admin: All kinds of trouble in Ukraine encouraged by pootyput.

Biden could defuse this powderkeg anytime he chooses by simply
***You forgot to use the word “appeasing” here...

making it clear that Ukraine will never be part of NATO.
***He could defuse the powderkeg by accepting Ukraine into NATO. One position is better than the other for future negotiations of aggressive neutrality for that region.

Yet the neocon
***I’m paleocon.

globalists
***I’m AmericaFirster Constitutionalist. Having a new, NATO dues-paying member of NATO is in America’s best interest.

will not allow an end to this conflict.
***Then allow Ukraine into NATO and watch the conflict go away as fast as it did when penny-ante Estonia joined NATO.

As the article suggests, they despise a post communist, Christian, nationalistic Russia that embraces its heritage and scoffs at globalism and its goals.
***I really don’t care what neocon globalists think. This course of action represents what is best for NATO, Ukraine, USA, and even Russia.

Also Americans should reflect a bit on what the Russians have done.
***They have already annexed part of Ukraine. They’re as much a local bully as Hitler was over Ukraine and the Rhineland.

If the Russians had not fought so tenaciously, heroically, and with great sacrifice to decimate the best of the German army,
***The same country that was ALLIED with the NAZIs and STARTED world war 2 by JOINTLY INVADING Poland. Americans should “reflect a bit” on what the Russians have done.

how many Americans would exist today?
***The world would have been a far better place if Russia had not jointly invaded Poland with the NAZIs in world war 2. How many more Russians would exist today if that hadn’t happened?

Try to imagine the casualties their fathers and grandfathers would have suffered
***Your imaginings are entirely one sided. Once you look at what the Russians have done in history from multiple sides, you will see the same bully country that killed off ten million Ukrainians in the holodomor, killed off tens of millions who didn’t agree with their color of communism, killed off tens of millions of Germans, Polish, and their own countrymen in the war THEY started alongside the Germans.

if they would have had to fight a largely intact German army to liberate europe.
***Just ask all those eastern European countries if they felt “liberated” by the soviet bass turds.

So, that’s how you approach these issues? You read ONE line and make your determination, completely DEVOID of context and aggressively pursuing ignorance?

You obviously read my home page

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I’m a big tent republican.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1821435/posts?page=18455
Here’s an analogy to work with. Take a small box and fill it with some rocks. Then add some rice, filling it to the top. Now take all the same stuff, but in a different order. Put in the rice first, then add the rocks.
What you’ll find is that if you put in the big stuff first, the small stuff will fit around it. But if you put in the small stuff first, the big stuff won’t have room. The republican tent is the box. The Big issues are the socon issues, to be put in first. The little issues are things that can be accommodated around the bigger stuff. A candidate who tries to focus on the smaller issues first and leave out the bigger issues has no way of getting all of us into the tent. He splits the party. The candidate who gets the big stuff right and as much of the little stuff that will fit, he can fit more into the tent.
We’re often amazed at how much rice can keep fitting in. Folks such as Rudy or Romney flunk some of the big issues, and on some of the little issues it looks to me like anyone else’s rice would do just as well. All that remains for us to agree on is which are the bedrock principles and which are not.
Why would there be so much invective aimed at rudy or romney from the right? Because there are some bedrock principles that he is leaving out. Bad move. I see rudybot and romneybot postings all the time saying that they would vote for Hunter or Palin, and I see socon postings that say they would not vote for rudy or romney.
That’s a BIG indicator of a few bedrock principles that are being left outside the tent in order to let in some rice.

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Russia’s eight demands to NATO from their December 10, 2021 letter:

Article 1: the parties should not strengthen their security at the expense of Russia’s security;
***The hell with that. Russia is exhibiting signs of military aggressiveness and has already invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea.

Article 2: the parties will use multilateral consultations and the NATO-Russia Council to address points of conflict;
***Sounds like pablum to me. Russia would LOVE to have the whole thing land in the UN where they have security council veto power.

Article 3: the parties reaffirm that they do not consider each other as adversaries and maintain a dialogue;
***I would trust that article 3 issue with Russia as far as I could throw Russia. They would have to withdraw from Crimea for me to even listen to that bullshiite.

Article 4: the parties shall not deploy military forces and weaponry on the territory of any of the other states
***Uhh, Russia has violated this article by stationing more than 100k on Ukraine’s border.

in Europe in addition to any forces that were deployed as of May 27, 1997;
***Convenient date, wouldn’t you say?

Article 5: the parties shall not deploy land-based intermediate- and short-range missiles adjacent to the other parties;
***There are SALT treaties and START treaties and all kinds of other treaties that already cover this. Maybe if Russia stopped deploying SEA-based missiles, I would be more inclined to listen to their whining.

Article 6: all member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization commit themselves to refrain from any further enlargement of NATO,
***No deal. If a country wants to be in NATO, let them join NATO. Russia has historically had a lot of issues with its neighbors employing democracy.

including the accession of Ukraine as well as other States;
***Russia needs to withdraw from Crimea, which is in Ukraine, before we listen to any more of their bullshiite.

Article 7: the parties that are member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization shall not conduct any military activity on the territory of Ukraine as well as other States in the Eastern Europe, in the South Caucasus and in Central Asia; and
***That’s okay by me as long as RUSSIA doesn’t conduct any military activity in THEIR contingent regions. Not gonna happen, so this one-sided request is as worthless as the toilet paper I would print it on.

Article 8: the agreement shall not be interpreted as affecting the primary responsibility of the Security Council of the United Nations for maintaining international peace and security.
***More pablum. See how Russia wants to push things to the Security Council of the UN where they still retain veto power? Straightforward bully maneuver.

There can be no justification for the vile crimes of the communists and the horrible yoke that Russia and the world suffered from 1917 through 1991. Russia is now just evolving from this catastrophic and debilitating time. Its a wonder that they have anything from their heritage to build on. Yet history is what it was. The Russian people, for reasons the neocon globalists will never understand or appreciate, decimated the best of the German army. If they had not, and America were still to liberate Europe, the toll of American dead, never to procreate, would have been much, much higher and possibly unacceptable.

You may not like or trust the Russians but rational people understand why they do not want a hostile military alliance of dubious purpose and goals entrenched on their borders. Rational people also do not share your enthusiasm for American continued participation in this globalist tripwire for the sacrifice of American blood and the squandering of American treasure. Biden is behaving exactly as a puppet of neocon globalists would. Biden is a demented, debilitated, corrupt lowlife who in his rotted, obsessed brain roils that the Russians are threatening his Ukrainian piggy bank

Putin is an autocrat trying to re-create the USSR, or the Tsarist Empire if you will. Russia is allied with China, whose leader has issued statements of support for Russia. Both nations have engaged in joint military operations. Russia has close relationships with Communist regimes in Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua, as well as the radical Islamic nation of Iran. Clearly, China is the senior partner in the relationship because of its economic clout. Both countries, along with Iran, want to take the United States and the Western democracies down a peg. China believes that the 21st Century is a Chinese century, as the 20th Century was an American century/

On the other hand, Ukraine is a highly corrupt country, with the current regime put in place with support from the Obama Administration. Russia does have legitimate concerns about a hostile alliance on its southern border. The Biden Administration is in considerable political trouble, due to inflation, increased crime, and adverse public reaction to aggressive leftism (CRT) and continued COVID restrictions. A war in far off Ukraine may be wanted by Biden and his handlers in order to distract public attention. It also gives the opportunity to impose increased restrictions on the country, e.g., wage and price controls, continuation of COVID restrictions, etc.

I would not be surprised if black ops under US or NATO control engage in a false flag operation in order to get Putin to react with an invasion. There are no good guys here.

Interestingly, you omitted the “basket case” part of my description, which is the main component of my comment (”corrupt” is just an adjective). Yeah, there are many corrupt nations in NATO, the USA among them. But, none are the basket case that Ukraine is — yet.

However, you DID mention the “basket case” when you addressed my comment about Ukraine having some pretty women. So? Do you take such light-hearted comments so seriously? I bet you are a riot at funerals.

And, you take issue with my comment about China being a bigger threat to NATO than Russia, dismissing it as a “red herring” and a “logical fallacy.” My comment is not misleading at all (a requisite for a red herring or a logical fallacy). I posit that China is the biggest global threat to everyone; yes, even to Russia.

The Russian people, for reasons the neocon globalists will never understand or appreciate, decimated the best of the German army.
***Of course they did, 2 years after they ALLIED with that German army and ripped their own neighbor Polanhd in half, STARTING that wary. How is it you keep overlooking this incredible salient?

If they had not, and America were still to liberate Europe, the toll of American dead, never to procreate, would have been much, much higher and possibly unacceptable.
***There you go again, returning to your regurgitated argument like a dog to its vomit. And you have to jump the fence of Russia having a heavy hand in STARTING that war in order to suck up that vomit argument.

You may not like or trust the Russians
***I’m sure average Russkies are great people.

but rational people
***Umm, do YOU consider YOURSELF to be a rational person? Because you are simply not acknowledging Russia’s hand in STARTING world war 2 but you wanna keep pretending they were so heroic in fighting off those Germans whom they were allied with in starting that war. Not rational at all.

understand why they do not want a hostile military alliance of dubious purpose and goals entrenched on their borders.
***NATO is ALREADY on their borders. This was largely due to Russia’s own doing because they mistreated so many eastern European countries when they occupied them during the cold war.

Rational people also do not share your enthusiasm
***You are FAR from a rational person. You are acting like a Russia apologist.

for American continued participation in this globalist tripwire
***Tripwires work. Note how Russia hasn’t made any aggressive moves for the tiny republic of Estonia once they JOINED NATO? Nothing globalist about it. You just like throwing around that word.

for the sacrifice of American blood and the squandering of American treasure.
***Uhhh, that would be NATO blood and NATO treasure, which would be mostly European blood and European treasure in Ukraine.

Biden is behaving exactly as a puppet of neocon globalists would.
***Biden is running scared in a combination of appeasement and wag-the-dog. He has no interest in tidily wrapping this thing up by signing a document and waving it around claiming “Peace in our time”. That document would be the inclusion of Ukraine into NATO.

Biden is a demented, debilitated, corrupt lowlife
***I totally agree. You bringing that up, however, is just a red herring because you don’t know how to argue your points.

who in his rotted, obsessed brain roils that the Russians are threatening
***They are threatening Ukraine. They have already invaded and stolen Ukrainian sovereignty in Crimea. That was under obambam.

his Ukrainian piggy bank
***Nice little whataboutism to end your childish rant on. Rational people don’t do this.

Putin is an autocrat trying to re-create the USSR, or the Tsarist Empire if you will.
***sounds about right

Russia is allied with China, whose leader has issued statements of support for Russia. Both nations have engaged in joint military operations. Russia has close relationships with Communist regimes in Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua, as well as the radical Islamic nation of Iran.
***yet another axis of evil

Clearly, China is the senior partner in the relationship because of its economic clout. Both countries, along with Iran, want to take the United States and the Western democracies down a peg.
***Yup. And they appear to be doing a strong job of it.

China believes that the 21st Century is a Chinese century, as the 20th Century was an American century/
***Nice first paragraph, steering your point to... what? I haven’t read it yet.

On the other hand, Ukraine is a highly corrupt country,
***Then we should address such a thing in their accession to NATO. Put in some checks and balances against corruption. America is a highly corrupt country, if you haven’t yet noticed.

with the current regime put in place with support from the Obama Administration.
***So, naturally, there would be corruption from that.

Russia does have legitimate concerns about a hostile alliance on its southern border.
***There is already a hostile alliance on its western border.

The Biden Administration is in considerable political trouble, due to inflation, increased crime, and adverse public reaction to aggressive leftism (CRT) and continued COVID restrictions.
***Yup.

A war in far off Ukraine may be wanted by Biden and his handlers in order to distract public attention.
***Ahh, so here is where you’re going: Wag the dog. Biden’s approach appears to be Appeasement + WagTheDog. I can see that.

It also gives the opportunity to impose increased restrictions on the country, e.g., wage and price controls, continuation of COVID restrictions, etc.
***Not sure where that lends nor distplaces your point...

I would not be surprised if black ops under US or NATO control engage in a false flag operation in order to get Putin to react with an invasion.
***Russia has a history of generating false flag events to justify their incursions to their neighbors.

There are no good guys here.
***There CAN be good guys here, those who value democracy/republic, want to clean out corruption in their own country, want leave-me-alone neutrality, and just want Ukraine for the Ukrainians. I favor Mongolia for the Mongolians, Taiwan for the Taiwanese, America for American Citizens, Kurdistan for the Kurds, Ireland for the Irish, etc.

Interestingly, you omitted the “basket case” part of my description,
***No I did NOT. I searched for “basket case” and I see it right in the comment I replied on.

which is the main component of my comment
***Doesn’t look like the main component. You should take a writing class, that would help.

(”corrupt” is just an adjective).
***Again, take that writing class. Corruption is far more important to deal with than a country being, in your HumptyDumptyism words, a “basket case”.

Yeah, there are many corrupt nations in NATO, the USA among them. But, none are the basket case that Ukraine is — yet.
***Sounds like a point you would need to develop rather than simply flat-out assert, because so far your assertion is kind of a nothingburger.

However, you DID mention the “basket case” when you addressed my comment
***Then I didn’t OMIT it, did I? Take that writing class. Also, take a critical thinking class, because here you are arguing against your own point.

about Ukraine having some pretty women. So? Do you take such light-hearted comments so seriously?
***Let me get this straight. I treated your light-hearted comment with light-heartedness. What is your issue? You should REALLY take that critical thinking class and learn to add clarity into your writing.

I bet you are a riot at funerals.
***I have done very well when I speak at funerals and memorials, thank you very much.

And, you take issue with my comment about China being a bigger threat to NATO than Russia,
***Yes because it is kind of a whataboutism.

dismissing it as a “red herring” and a “logical fallacy.”
***Here again, you should take that critical thinking class and learn what the logical fallacies are and how to avoid them.

My comment is not misleading at all
***Yes it IS misleading at all.

(a requisite for a red herring or a logical fallacy).
***Which your comment qualifies as.

I posit that China is the biggest global threat to everyone;
***Then go ahead and post your own China-Global-threat thread. It would be in the right place, rather than as a simple post on some other thread that isn’t talking about China.

yes, even to Russia.
***Look how far down you have to drill, just to come up with what was your own original point. That’s crappy writing, and it also involves crappy logical fallacy thinking. Take those critical thinking and writing classes.

Sorry idiot,
***Hello idiot. My response was deleted by the mod because it called in the Viking Kitties since you called me a troll. Interestingly, your comment is allowed to stand. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm...

I don’t care what people claim to be, I look at what they actually do. The current Ukrainian crisis is a false flag that is trying to aggravate a situation that is eight years old from Obama’s time.
***Lousy writing. I posted how and why but I aint gonna have it removed by the mod.

You have either bought into leftist propaganda or you are a crypto-leftist troll. Inexcusable.
***No, You are the troll here. Inexcusable.

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