Calculating The Full Costs Of Electrifying Everything Using Only Wind, Solar And Batteries

American Thinker ^ | 15 Jan, 2022 | Francis Menton

[cp124]

Great post.

[fireman15]

I was quoted about $4,000 to replace my AC in July 2020.

Good for you! Fixing your air conditioner is not the same as installing a new system is it? Well is it? My sister-in-law had to replace their 10 year old system five years ago to comply with new requirements... it cost $20,000.

That's the price premium of an EV. A new ICE car might cost you $32,000 and a new EV might cost you $47,000.

And a used car in decent shape might cost you $5000 that's a $42,000 savings over your hypothetical EV whose battery will cost more to replace in 10 years than what the car will be worth. So the entire worthless heap will be buried in a landfill.

Your figures are insane, you must have learned the "new math" in school and I am not sure that reflects well on you.

[BobL]

“The household cost would be about $20,000/house and about $15,000/car.”

Damn, didn’t realize I could store 30 days of energy for under $20k. How do I get these batteries?

[Brian Griffin]

“scrapping your perfectly good IC car”

Used cars aren’t cheap.

The ICE car will be used until its repair costs creep up, just as now.

There are about 130 million cars and light trucks on US roads. It will take many years to replace them.

Over 100 million ICE vehicles will still be rolling on US roads when Joe Biden starts pushing up daisies.

[Brian Griffin]

“Damn, didn’t realize I could store 30 days of energy for under $20k. How do I get these batteries?”

The $20,000 is for solar panel installations and long-distance transmission lines.

[Brian Griffin]

“didn’t realize I could store 30 days of energy for under $20k. How do I get these batteries?”

They’re called hydroelectric dams and have already been built.

There’s also pumped storage.

“Pumped hydro makes up 95 percent of the world’s energy storage”

“In Switzerland, for example, pumped hydro plants used to make money by storing cheap nighttime electricity inflows from French nuclear power plants that could then be sold to other neighboring countries, such as Germany, to meet daytime peaks.”

“Nowadays, though, Germany’s grid is often flooded with wind or solar energy, wiping out demand for Swiss pumped hydro capacity.”

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/pumped-hydro-moves-to-retain-storage-market-leadership#:~:text=Pumped%20hydro%20is%20already%20the,batteries%2C%20World%20Bank%20figures%20show.

[BobL]

“They’re called hydroelectric dams and have already been built.

There’s also pumped storage.”

LOL, good one!!! Not doing too well at Lake Mead these days!!!

By the way, where do you plan on building all of the new dams required and do you have the EPA permits yet?

[Brian Griffin]

“I was quoted about $4,000 to replace my AC in July 2020.
Good for you! Fixing your air conditioner is not the same as installing a new system is it?”

The $4,000 would have been for installing an new R-410A system to my existing ductwork.

[Sequoyah101]

The religion of the left is fear, greed and envy. That is all they have.

Have you ever seen a platform from the left that was not going to take from someone who has earned it to give it to someone who has done nothing?

Have you ever seen a platform from the left that wanted to improve anything?

Have you ever seen a platform from the left that did not want to destroy something to put something else in its place? The left is a one note samba, nihilism.

I have not.

[Sequoyah101]

An interesting to me factoid to put the cost of filling the gap in wind and solar power provision by battery storage; Based on our average monthly power consumption and $435 / kwh for battery storage it would cost me $650,000 for such an installation JUST for my own needs. If somehow, with massively increased demand the cost went down instead of up as it usually does with massive enforced demand, to $100 per kwh my cost for such a system would be a mere $150,000 PLUS the cost of the wind and / or solar system.

In fact, the current cost of battery storage is about three times the $435 if you buy the new 8 kwh system from Generac for about $10,000. That system costs $1,250 per kwh.

Hmmmmmmmm.

[Sequoyah101]

Interesting. I have a new 3 ton system that is about 3 times more efficient than the one I am replacing sitting out in the barn. I paid $3,100 for it with taxes and delivery. I’ll put it in next week but have to pay someone a few hundred bucks to help me since I’m pushing 70. I just can’t do what I could a few years ago.

I guess I’m insane too.

[Sequoyah101]

The battery back up offering from generac is for 8 kwh at a price of $10,000. That is $1,250 per kwh of storage.

Even if costs come down to the assumption of $435 per kwh or $100 for mass storage the cost per home such as mine is between $150,000 and $650,000.

Do the math. The talking points you’ve offered are WRONG.

[Sequoyah101]

That is only temporary until they can install enough windmills to meet all the new demand.

/s

[Sequoyah101]

Picture the horizon in so many areas of the US that are now cluttered with these turbine monsters. They are all located in the best places available. Each new location is less efficient. Now picture that number of turbine monsters multiplied by 8 to 10 times. That is what it would take to supply all our power IF all the monster turbines were operating all the time and all at once.

How many helicopters would it take to de-ice them and how much glycol?

It can be done but is it worth it?

[Sequoyah101]

And then Brian, how much extra capacity will have to be built to supply the power where it is generated AND where it is not when the power is not being generated where it is also needed?

[fireman15]

I have a new 3 ton system that is about 3 times more efficient than the one I am replacing sitting out in the barn. I paid $3,100 for it with taxes and delivery.

How does it compare to this one for $2440 delivered? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VHVXEHW/

I just mentioned what my sister-in-law paid to have a COMPLETE new heating and cooling system installed. Where they live in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia they do not let you install it yourself unless you are a licensed contractor with all the permits and certifications required to handle, store and recover refrigerants. That adds a bit along with all the components in addition to the heart of the system. Their system has more than one zone, each with separate components, venting, and accessories. So, I don't know if they got ripped off or not.

I guess I’m insane too.

You are if you also believe that the entire country can be retrofitted to solar and wind power for $6 Trillion.

[Sequoyah101]

And show your work.

NO credit will be given for answers where you do not show your calculations and assumptions. Only partial credit may be given for incorrect answers even when your work is shown.

Any answers where calculations and assumptions are not shown and justifiable are opinion only and not admissible for technical consideration or justification of your position.

[VTenigma]

BFL

[Sequoyah101]

And so, where in Florida are they going to build all this pumped storage and hydroelectric dams?

At last report most locations for such facilities have been exhausted or off limits for further development. Some are even slated to be torn down (e.g. Glenn Canyon) if not torn down already.

Reality, face it.

[Sequoyah101]

I don’t believe that the $6 trillion is realistic at all but I may still be insane at times.

The rip-off begins with her location. So far I don’t have to permit a thing. There is a price to pay for all that scenic beauty and I won’t.

My new system beats the snot out of that one for efficiency and why I bought it. Goodmans are OK. I’ve had them and they can last a long time.