"McMichael "said please call him day or night when you get action on your camera," the officer wrote in his text message to English".
Posted on 11/23/2021 9:18:55 AM PST by ChicagoConservative27
If the one guy did nothing but film on his own initiative, I suspect he probably isn't guilty of anything. But if he was part of an organized plan to detain the guy, then that may be enough for him to be guilty of conspiracy to detain Arbery unlawfully. But without having seen all the evidence and all the jury instructions, I wouldn't have a strong opinion either way.
“They did not stop him. Arbery could have kept running.”
Sure, when people point guns at you and tell you to stop, you can technically ignore them, I suppose. However, everyone who has a shred of common sense left would not object to that being described as “stopping” someone.
"He's dead Jim."
What is this "worse situation" of which you speak?
But he had absolutely no reason to believe complying would either.
In broad daylight with people around? You think a man has no reason to believe he will not be shot down in the street in front of witnesses? The witnesses said they could hear the sirens approaching and it only took the police a few more moments to get there.
There is other video of this guy (Arbery) getting aggressive with a cop. After seeing it, and reading up on his history (took a gun to school) I have no doubt he thought the fat guy didn't have the guts to shoot him.
I've known a lot of people in the black gangsta culture, and many of them think they are bad@$$ and bulletproof. I had a very good friend who called himself "O.G." (Old Gangsta) and he faced down nine young "gangbangers" and whipped several of their @$$es, even though they had guns.
In that culture, you aren't supposed to show fear, and you act quickly and with great violence.
My friend hit a man so hard he broke his own arm. I remember him wearing a cast for quite a while. My friend was well known in the community and highly respected, and nobody messed with him. Everybody was a little bit afraid of him because he would go violent in a split second if someone disrespected him.
Arbery was trying to pull a gansta move, but he picked the wrong situation to make that kind of play.
Bother to read. Oh wait, you’re the flame war junky. You can’t read. Well, completely unwilling. Your coming down on this side proves to me beyond any doubt these guys are murderers. You never back the truth.
According to Gregory McMichael's own statement he and his son got in their truck and followed Arbery when they saw him run by their house. He further stated that he tried to cut Arbery off twice, and William Bryan tried once, before passing him and stopping further down the road so they could accost him.
That might be true, but if he believed that, he should have either stopped or ran away.
Both Gregory McMichael and Travis McMichael admit that Gregory made that threat as Arbery was passed the truck. Why should Arbery doubt that they would do what they threatened? After all they had followed him for some minutes and tried to cut him off twice? Why wouldn't he believe that they would kill them if they could?
Yeah, how do you "draw" a shotgun?
So it's semantics now? How about 'brandish' instead? Or 'wield'? "Threaten with'? 'Show'? 'Pointed'? The fact is he accosted Arbery armed with a shotgun after his father had just threatened to blow his head off. And yet the McMichaels claim all they wanted to do was talk with him. </sarcasm>
He did not defend himself. He *ATTACKED*.
He defended himself from those who would do him harm if not kill him. If part of that was trying to get the gun away from the closest one threatening him then that's still trying to defend yourself.
Driving around yelling "stop" we want to talk to you is hardly a "pursuit." And they had probable knowledge of a felony because they were aware Arbery had been in that house multiple times at night, they were aware a lot of material had been stolen from that house, and they themselves had had a gun stolen.
So yes, they had direct knowledge of a felony, and a good suspicion that Arbery was the suspect because they had seen his pictures before in the video of him inside that house.
T... and hit him with a vehicle.
And where did you get that from? I remember there was a suggestion in the early days of the "investigation" that a dent in the side of the truck was caused by hitting Arbery, but i've never heard it confirmed as true.
I know the cops were trying to throw everything they could think of at them, but i've never heard this accusation confirmed as true.
“A different approach I would have done is run into the woods.”
That is an option. But,depending on the situation, it could get you shot in the back.
Agreed, but he had time previous to the initial closing of him and the truck.
I’m kind of bored with thread, to tell you the truth. There is video evidence of him in the neighborhood and in houses under construction, at the same time there was a serious increase in crime in the neighborhood that he clearly does not belong in.
“Who the hell grabs the barrel of a shotgun anyways?”
For one, somebody who thinks they’ve got nothing to lose and if they are going down they might as well go down fighting.
Who the hell gets close enough with a shotgun that whoever he’s trying to “cover” can grab it? There’s more than one mistake in this situation.
Videos that show other people walking through the property and none of which show Arbery stealing anything. As for the 'neighborhood that he clearly does not belong in' I'll just leave that one alone.
Five times in the house at night from which stuff has been stolen? Sounds like evidence enough to investigate. Gun stolen from the neighborhood? Sounds like evidence enough to investigate.
Any criminal record for robbery or burglary in any other part of town?
Criminal record for taking a gun to school if I remember correctly. Aggressive verging on violent encounter with the police, recorded on video.
His brother has a long criminal record and is well known to the police as a crook. Maybe they thought he was his brother?
Any evidence whatsoever that he had committed any crime that deserved to be stopped and arrested for?
I recall two occasions in which I was stopped and detained pending questioning. The first time my friend and I were driving down a residential street when we noticed a cop eyeing us funny. The vehicle we were driving had an expired inspection sticker, so we thought maybe that's what he saw and was why he was interested in us.
I was driving and I didn't want a ticket so I turned. The cop followed. I turned again, and this time the cop put on his lights and ordered us to stop through his public address system. He then opened the door of his vehicle with his gun drawn and pointing at us and then he said "Get out of the Car!" which we did. He ordered us to put our hands on our head, go over to the sidewalk, kneel down on it, and then lay on our stomachs on the ground. Which we did. He told us to put our hands behind our back where he could see them.
We were like "What the h3ll?" Another police cruiser shows up, and then another, and then the guy tells us to turn our heads sideways so this woman cop could look at us.
We did, and she said " I don't think that is them." And then she said "I'm certain that isn't them."
At which point the officer holstered his gun and told us we can get up now. He said there had just been a jewelry store robbery, and we two fit the description, including the green car we were driving and the stocking hat my friend was wearing.
He said he was sorry for stopping us, and that we were free to leave.
The second time wasn't as bad, but once again we were ordered out of the car while they held their hands on their guns and then we were brought back to their car one at a time to do a "field interview". This happened in a different city, but once again, they were looking for robbery suspects and I guess we fit the description.
The point here is we didn't flee, we didn't evade. We cooperated in every way we could. Now these were uniformed cops, and the second time was at night, while the first was in broad daylight.
Had citizens attempted to detain us for police, I would have cooperated in the daylight, but at night I would have probably tried to flee and find a cop myself.
I very much doubt Arbery was going to run towards the sirens.
Yes, palm print and shirt fibers were found on the vehicle.
And you stopped???? You didn't just run away like you say Arbery should have?
"McMichael "said please call him day or night when you get action on your camera," the officer wrote in his text message to English".
"Dear Ms Crittendon and McGowan: |
I followed it closely at the time it first surfaced in the public consciousness. My recollection is that the case had been over and done with no charges filed until the lawyer for the camera guy decided to release the video to show that his client did nothing wrong.
It was the release of this video that triggered the whole outcry and subsequent "investigation" by the GBI.
As for "arresting" Arbery, they were certainly trying to get him to stop and wait for the police, but I very greatly doubt they ever intended to physically hold him. I think they were counting on his being cowed by their weapons into submitting to staying there until police arrived.
That’s something that the jury has to consider. But if the jury decides that the McMichael’s were not within the law, then Arbery had a legal right of self defense.
In the legal system, people hair split to ridiculous lengths. It is a reasonable interpretation of the law to believe they had probable cause under the statute. With enough hair splitting you can argue they didn't have probable cause. It often boils down to how intelligent jurors are.
It’s messed up, because it’s a matter of record that Arbery did in fact enter the house under construction, and a reasonable person would infer his intent to steal something, completing the elements of the crime of burglary, a felony.
He entered the house five times, four of which were at night in the preceding months. The McMichaels had been shown the video of him, and I have read that the elder McMichael had dealt with him in his official capacity as a police officer before he retired. ( I think it was the case in which Arbery took a gun to school and threatened people with it.) They were also aware that some burglar had stolen one of their guns from inside their truck, and so it was therefore reasonable to assume the suspect may be armed.
But is it a matter of record that the McMichaels had sufficient knowledge under the law that Arbery had just done that?
They had knowledge that he bolted from the house from which items had been stolen in the past, and in which he had been seen going through the house at night.
A reasonable jury could go either way on this.
With what I know of the case, I don't see how they could find them guilty, but I didn't watch the trial, and I don't know what may have been presented of which I am unaware.
I've seen jury trials come to wrong decisions many times in the past. The OJ Simpson case comes to mind, as well as several local trials of which I am aware where the Jury absolutely got it wrong.
“Stupid thug attacks a man and gets shot”
You like leaving a lot out? Guy attacks someone he credibly believes is going to kill him anyways...how is that? In at least some cases, Georgia law allowed common people to arrest someone. That law has been rescinded but it was the law at the time. Did the dead man know that loophole? I sure didn’t. Men threatening to kill me over nothing HAVE NO RIGHT TO SELF-DEFENSE.
In most states, and in Georgia now that the law has changed, this would be an open/shut MURDER case. I’d find it very hard to acquit them based on “Maybe the law allowed them to pursuit the guy” - and I’m a foaming at the mouth 2nd Amendment guy.
Not really, since the only thing ever stolen was plywood scraps, by some white kids, and some fishing gear, which be believed that a white couple he caught on tape had stolen. In none of the videos is Arbery seen stealing anything or even touching any of the tools that were out.
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