Posted on 11/18/2021 5:34:39 AM PST by Pilgrim's Progress
Sort of.
It is possible for both sides to have a valid claim to self defense.
Here, it doesn’t matter what JR/JKM/AH, and GG were thinking, did Kyle feel reasonably threatened with imminent bodily harm?
To me, the problem for JR/JKM/ and AH is that KR never directly threatened any of them. GG can claim that KR raised the rifle in his direction when he ran at KR, but he also acknowledged that KR dropped his aim, only to return it when GG aimed the pistol at him.
Self defense is a fact intensive inquiry.
True, if you are immediately engaged in a criminal act, your self defense claim is at least weakened if not barred. But you can resist being killed for shoplifting.
The general principles are force is to be proportional, and deadly force ONLY if there is reasonable apprehension of serious injury, death, or rape.
The rioters have about the same right to self defense, most of the time, while they are milling about, as the good guys.
jury done for the day
Well nutty thinking perhaps but it also proved that at heart the two jurors weren’t nuts. Some people need the clearest connections possible from the crime to the criminal in order to convict...they worry about God confronting them had the voted mistakenly.
why did they ask to take the jury instructions home with them??? never heard of such a thing
They found several pallets of bricks in a alley
one juror asked if she could take the jury instructions home
judge said yes
Jury in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial is breaking for the night. Deliberations will go into fourth day. Will return again at 9 a.m. Friday. One juror asks if they can take the jury instructions home. The judge tells them they can “but you obviously can’t talk to anybody about them”
https://twitter.com/deneenknews/status/1461455953828716546
open and shut case for NOT GUILTY and this jury is NOT doing their duty.....
These two nice older ladies were quite imporessed by the presumption of innocence, which is repeated like 100 times a day, and the environment is designed to be intimidating to the public. It takes a bit of effort to “shake back to reality.”
They had no issue with defending their point of view to God, that for sure! They just put an impossible burden on prosecution - I think because the presumed innocent phrase was drilled into the jury.
That’s crazy. Why? They’re not supposed to do any individual deliberation.
They heard on day 4 there is going to be a quiz.
Are we looking at a hung jury?
Therefore it is all the things you would expect a jury to discuss.
Oh goodie a pop quiz!
Sounds like the Casey Anthony jury.
Thanks JJ for letting us know. I check back periodically so now it’s time to wait for tomorrow’s news...Friday, might that be the final day?
That's one element of self defense. It's not the entirety.
That's the prevailing wisdom.
I think it's too early to tell, and we don't know enough. Maybe there is a good faith effort going on to persuade the one or two or three who don't see self-defense. There is no signal that negotiations have broken down, other than it's taken three days so far.
At this point, if I was foreman and it was clear we had one or more dug in, I'd tell the judge that at least is dug in, and won't budge even faced with the facts. But I'm quite impatient, and this foreperson may have the patience of Job.
Hig grade liars in that case. In the one I was on, the defendant and his friends were bad liars. It was a slam dunk, other than not having a movie.
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