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[TwelveOfTwenty #621 to #619] I was replying to the comments made by Jefferson Davis about his concern for blacks in the South in 1865 when defeat was certain, and compared them to Hitler's claim in 1945 that he didn't want war in 1939. In both cases they were on the brink of total defeat, and were clearly trying to distance themselves from the consequences of their actions.

Neither woodpusher #619 nor TwelveOfTwenty #612 contain any reference to or statement by Jefferson Davis in 1865. Had you bothered to research the statement, you would know that.

[TwelveOfTwenty #624] JD in 1865 "I hope the negroes' fidelity will be duly rewarded and regret that we are not in a position to aid and protect them. There is, I observe, a controversy which I regret as to allowing negroes to testify in court. From brother Joe [Joseph Davis], many years ago, I derived the opinion that they should be made competent witnesses, the jury judging of their credibility. (Jefferson Davis: Private Letters 1823-1889, selected and edited by Hudson Strode, New York: De Capo Press, 1995, reprint, p. 188)

Only in your imagination is that quote from 1865. Excellent example of your meticulous research.

Jefferson Davis was captured on May 10, 1865 and incarcerated at Fort Monroe on May 22, 1865. For your Hitler remark to make any sense, your response would need at least some statement from 1865. You do not have one.

[woodpusher #623 to #621] Your incompetent self still did not give a date for your quote.

You have still not identified the supposed date or the supposed site of the 1861 Davis speech, or the addressee if a letter, or the name of the anonymous visitor, if a visitor. You avoid this like the plague because there is no date to cite.

In short, there remains ZERO provenance for the "quote," and leaving only evidence of an unsourced fictional quote echoed endlessly about the internet and in the cottage industry of Lincoln books.

You claim a quote from 1865 at a time when "defeat was certain, and compared Hitler's claim in 1945." This quote that you searched on is from before the civil war.
I'm glad I gave you enough information to validate the quote.

I did not validate your citation of the most famous FICTIONAL quote of Jefferson Davis. Neither did you; nor could you or anybody else.

Yes, I know the quote I posted was from 1861. That was my point. He was singing a different song four years later in defeat.

Now, of course, you "know" it was from 1861, but the quote it is not real. It is not from any time at all.

No, you have not provided a date for it. If it was a letter, you have not provided an addressee of the letter. If it was a speech, you have not provided a date or place said speech was given. If it were a spoken comment, to whom was it made?

You are simply caught relying on your usual bullshit sources again. It is just fun to watch you attempt to spin your way out of the messes you create for yourself with your sources and failure of due diligence.

As your link was just the return on a search term, let's look at the first five results.

[1] https://www.inspiringquotes.us/quotes/dFS9_xFSoOqPw

[2] https://kaplancollection.com/the-cased-collection/jefferson-davis/

[3] https://seattlemedium.com/an-answer-for-confederate-apologists/

[4] https://jeffersonforbesdavis.weebly.com/quotes.html

[5] https://jacksonvillefreepress.com/an-answer-for-confederate-apologists/

Each of the five is a bald attribution to Jefferson Davis with no date or source, whether it be oral or written.

That was the top five results at the link you provided. Now let us examine one where an attempt is made to make believe there is a semi-citable source, although not to Jefferson Davis.

If you drill down far enough, you come to a result sourced to Kenneth Davis "quoting" Jefferson Davis.

https://etb-political.blogspot.com/2012/04/civil-war-slavery-and-john-ashcroft.html

Or, as Davis reiterated after being elected President of the Confederacy, "My own convictions as to negro slavery are strong. It has its evils and abuses...We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude...You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables them to be."
[Kenneth C. Davis, Don't Know Much About the Civil War: Everything You Need to Know About America's Greatest Conflict But Never Learned (New York: Avon Books, 1996), p. 156.]

Kenneth Davis repeatedly recycled this "quote" in his various books. But what is the Kenneth Davis source for the supposed Jefferson Davis "quote"? I have Kenneth Davis in his more voluminous blathering, Look Away! History of the Confederate States of America. Here at pg. 137, Kenneth Davis gives the recycled "quote" and endnote 4 contains an attribution. At page 430 we find endnote 4 attributes the "quote" to New York Citizen, April 13, 1867.

The owner/editor of the New York Citizen was none other than the famous Charles G. Halpine, notorious purveyor of fiction posing as history or reporting.

A volume called IRISH, Charles G. Halpine in Civil War America was written by William Hanchett, with foreward by Allan Nevins. From the inside sleeve of the cover:

Firmly established as a personality in New York Democratic politics, Halpine became involved in the Reconstruction controversy through his authorship of the popular—and largely fictional—book, The Prison Life of Jefferson Davis.

Noted in the Preface, "As a Democrat party propagandist and office holder, he was active in New York politics and in the Reconstruction program of President Andrew Johnson."

Halpine was also known by pen name Miles O'Reilly, (Private Miles O'Reilly) and dozens of other pseudonyms.

In May 1865, the Citizen was transferred to Halpine. In June, "the Times reprinted a Citizen article which asserted that Secretary Stanton was opposed to a military trial for the conspirators in Lincoln's assassination." Of course, Stanton was a major proponent of using military trials.

Largely fictional, The Prison Life of Jefferson Davis was ghost written by Halpine, but published as the work of Dr. John J. Craven. It is the subject of a later book, Fiction Distorting Fact by Edward K. Eckert. On the inside sleeve of the latter work, "At best, Halpine's Prison Life of Jefferson Davis is a colorful, although unrealistic, rendering of a highly emotional experience. At its worst, it is a self-serving, fictionalized tale written for the personal profit of the author and to aid his political agenda. His account, hastily composed, is fraught with errors and distortions of fact."

Notably, neither Kenneth Davis, nor anyone else, attempts to identify any letter or speech of Jefferson Davis. The notorious fabulist Charles Halpine is hardly a credible source.

Let us proceed to a few I dug up.

https://www.nellaware.com/blog/tag/alexander-stevens

Jefferson Davis Resigns From The United States Senate
Posted by: Jonathan R. Allen
His Home State of Mississippi Seceded On January 9, 1861
“My own convictions, as to negro slavery are strong, It has its evils and abuses.... We recognize the negro as God and God’s Book and God’s Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him-our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude.... You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables them to be.”
...Jefferson Davis
Those are the ugly words of Jefferson Davis to a northern friend after Davis became president of the Confederacy. They are especially ugly for us to read today.
We have to consider that Davis was a man living in his times and not ours, but that is not meant to justify or excuse him. What other words should we expect to come from the president of the Confederate States of America, the president of a collection of states which seceded from the Union and went to war to preserve slavery? Mississippi’s secession, which Davis supported, led to his resignation from the United States Senate. Jefferson Davis believed that all men are not equal, that slaves were not equal to whites, and his Farewell Address to the United States Senate emphasized his beliefs.
In January, 1861, Jefferson Davis was fifty-three-years-old and his health was poor. He had served the United States as a Congressman, led Mississippi volunteers in the Mexican War and was wounded at the Battle of Buena Vista, was a Senator, and was Secretary of War under Franklin Pearce. Davis was a Democrat and a strong supporter of States’ Rights, and in favor of Mississippi’s secession from the Union. Earlier in life, he had been a slave owner at the Davis family’s Mississippi plantation. Compared to other slave owners, the Davises were known to treat their slaves well, but they thought the slaves to be their private property, that they were inferior to whites, and as a race only suited for servitude.
On January 21, 1861, Jefferson Davis was standing at a podium in the Senate Chamber at the United States Capitol. Now it was time for Davis to resign as a United States senator and return home to Mississippi, now part of the Confederate States of America. He was there to say farewell, or “adieu” as he would say in his emotional speech.
Jefferson Davis’ six-year term as president of the Confederate States of America was cut short. The Union won the Civil War after four years of bloody war and hell on earth. The Union was preserved, the Confederacy failed, and the United States bid “adieu” to the peculiar institution of slavery.
Jefferson Davis Farewell Speech to the United States Senate
Senate Chamber, United States Capital, January 21, 1861
[...]

There follows the text of the Davis farewell speech to the United States Senate. Davis was inaugurated President of the Confederacy on February 18, 1861.

It may be possible to mistakenly consider that the quote at the top of the article is a pull quote from the Farewell speech quoted beneath it, but that would be a mistake. While it seems to infer a date in 1861 after the inauguration, it only gives the date certain of something else. What is still missing is the date certain of the alleged Davis statement and the name of the unidentified "friend."

How about this one.

In The Civil War in 50 Objects by Harold Holzer and Eric Foner (2013), there is the assertion, "My own convictions, as to negro slavery, are strong," he proudly told a visitor during the secession crisis. And the quote is resumed and continued. Here Jefferson Davis imparted these words to some anonymous visitor on some unidentified date during the secession crisis.

In short, you provided a quote as imaginary as that of Rick Blaine in Casablanca: "Play it again Sam." Everybody has heard it, but Rick never said it.