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To: FLT-bird
Did it have to pass and become a constitutional amendment in order to have been offered? Yes or no.

Well you asked, so...

Yes. Lincoln might just as well have offered the British Empire. Neither was his to give.

The effort to get it passed lost a lot of steam once the original 7 seceding states said they were not interested.

It never came close to ratification even before it "lost steam".

Everybody including Southern Democrats voted for its passage in 1865.

Not true.

There were more such statements by others. On another point, I have never argued that slavery was not AN issue.

You not only never made that point, you strongly denounced it in words that left me with no doubts about your sincerity about that.

It was pretty much understood by everybody that the 13th amendment had to pass. As such, Southerners were willing to pass it since they all had to live in one country after the war so it was time to concede the point - which they did in good faith.

Only Virginia and West Virginia were represented. Their reps, none of whom were Democrats, voted yes.

Before the war and even a couple years into the war, there weren't many abolitionists. They could not win elections

According to the declarations of secession, they did.

"The motive of those who protested against the extension of slavery had always really been concern for the welfare of the white man, and not an unnatural sympathy for the negro." William Seward.

He was an abolitionist, and it was no secret many abolitionists were frustrated with how slow things were moving. Frederick Douglas also expressed frustration early on.

However, the former slaves who escaped into the North and were accepted into the Army and Navy proves that wasn't all of them.

565 posted on 11/01/2021 4:20:48 AM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Will whoever keeps asking if this country can get any more insane please stop?)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Yes. Lincoln might just as well have offered the British Empire. Neither was his to give.

No it did not. It passed Congress. The prospect of it passing enough states was VERY real had the original 7 seceding states agreed to it. With the Republicans putting maximum pressure on the Northern states to pass it, they'd have gotten enough of them. They got a few even after the original 7 seceding states rejected it.

It never came close to ratification even before it "lost steam".

Au Contraire. Getting the necessary supermajority in each house of Congress and the signature of the president shows it was a genuine and very viable offer.

Not true.

The Southern states voted for its passage in 1865.

You not only never made that point, you strongly denounced it in words that left me with no doubts about your sincerity about that.

Again, false, It was AN issue. It was not THE issue. It was not even the main issue. It was what we all now would call a wedge issue.....something one side brings up to divide the sides neatly into the camps it wants and which serves to prevent any who are otherwise less committed from drifting over into the other camp.

Only Virginia and West Virginia were represented. Their reps, none of whom were Democrats, voted yes.

Louisiana ratified in February 17th. Tennessee April 7th. Arkansas April 14th. South Carolina November 13th. Alabama Dec 2nd. North Carolina Dec 4th Georgia Dec 6th. Georgia's ratification meant it passed. Florida and Texas (along with Oregon, California, Iowa, Kentucky, Delaware and New Jersey ratified it after its passage). The only Southern state which did not ratify it was Mississippi. The people who ratified it in the Southern states were the duly elected DEMOCRAT office holders. This was before the Occupation started. You are wrong once again.

According to the declarations of secession, they did.

According to the results of actual elections in the Northern states they did not.

He was an abolitionist, and it was no secret many abolitionists were frustrated with how slow things were moving. Frederick Douglas also expressed frustration early on.

That's not a complaint about slowness. He is accurately observing why the Republicans did not want slavery in the territories. They wanted to reserve it for White people. You know what else they did not want in the Territories? Black people. Yes, free ones too. Read Oregon's original Constitution. Read Kansas'.

However, the former slaves who escaped into the North and were accepted into the Army and Navy proves that wasn't all of them.,/p>

Both sides made liberal use of anybody they could to fight the war.

566 posted on 11/01/2021 7:41:08 AM PDT by FLT-bird
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