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To: one guy in new jersey
hypothetically, in 2021, an astute commenter named branch pusher says the following on FR about that amendment of the Constitution of Panama:

All persons born within the territory and jurisdiction of Panama, and subject to its jurisdiction, i.e., subject to its laws, regardless of parentage, are born citizens of Panama, pursuant to the black letter text of the 14th Amendment.

So we have woodpusher saying McCain is a born citizen of the United States, and branchpusher saying Mchain is a born citizen of Panama.

Can both be correct?

Both could be correct. U.S. determination of its citizenship is a strictly domestic affair, as is such determination by every sovereign nation on earth.

Panama is free to determine who is a citizen of Panama pursuant to Panamanian law. That has no affect effect whatever on U.S. citizenship.

If birther theory were correct, The Duchy of Grand Fenwick could extend citizenship to all persons born in the United States who are not accredited members of an Indian tribe, the result being that the only persons eligible to run for President would be accredited members of an Indian tribe. The definition of U.S. citizenship is not at the mercy of any foreign law.

United States law is not changed by what any foreign nation enacts as its domestic law. The Constitution and all of its provisions are irrelevant to United States domestic law. U.S. law is the supreme law within U.S. territory.

It is quite impossible to be born under the territorial jurisdiction of more than one sovereign.

Let’s further say that the Constitution of Panama has an identical provision to the U.S. Constitution, confining the office of President of Panama only to Natural Born Citizens of Panama. Is it possible that McCain can be a Natural Born Citizen of the United States AND a Natural Born Citizen of Panama, simultaneously eligible to run for and hold both countries’ office of President?

To put your hypothetical to a more real life test, consider the child born in Belfast, Northern Ireland in 1970 to two parents born in Belfast, and who had never left Belfast. As Northern Ireland was (still is) part of the United Kingdom, the child would be a citizen of the UK. However, prior to the change of its constitution following the Good Friday Agreement, Eire (the Republic of Ireland) claimed all 32 counties, including those of Northern Ireland, whilst conceding only that it could not then govern over what it considered to be six counties of Ireland under British occupation. As far as Ireland was concerned, such child was born in Ireland and could obtain an Irish passport and become Taoseach. According the the UK, the child could become Prime Minister. Notably, it is unlikely that the child could reach adulthood and maintain its sole, official residence of record in both nations simultaneously.

119 posted on 07/24/2021 1:09:45 AM PDT by woodpusher
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To: woodpusher

The concept of a Natural Born Citizen arises out of Natural Law. Our NBC definition for POTUS eligibility purposes was frozen in time like a caveman with no comment or elaboration the moment the 10th of 13 former colonies approved our new Constitution in 1788. WE NEED SCOTUS TO THAW IT OUT AND SHOW EVERYONE HOW SIMPLE AND DISCRIMINATORY IT IS.

No country needs to bother defining the citizenship status of individuals born on its soil to parents who are its citizens. Do any of them require naturalization under the Unoted States Federal Naturalization Statute? NO—UNIQUELY, AND DEFINITIVELY, NO!

You’ve noticed by now, surely, that the U S. NEVER NOT ONCE EVER did such a thing (i.e., define such status of such individuals). And yet about 70 percent of American citizens NATURALLY fall into this category PLENTY COMFORTABLY AND WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

WHY MUST WE EXPAND THE POOL OF THE POTUS AND VPOTUS ELIGIBLE BEYOND THE DAMNABLY PLAIN AND STUBBORNLY UNFLAVORED INDIVIDUALS THAT MEET THIS DEFINITION? ARE THERE NOT HUNDREDS OF OTHER HIGH LEVEL GOVERNMENT JOBS THAT WILL KEEP THE VAGUELY EXOTIC AND RELATIVELY SPICY INDIVIDUALS THAT DON’T MEET THIS DEFINITION (Cruz, Harris, Rubio, etc.) HAPPY BUSY AND FULFILLED?


121 posted on 07/24/2021 1:58:45 AM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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