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To: 2aProtectsTheRest

Don’t hallucinate a question to something I never said or implied.

We don’t know what long term effects of the mRNA vaccines will be. We don’t know because there wasn’t long term testing done. In addition to that why didn’t Moderna and Pfizer accept legal liability for their vaccines if they are so safe? Moderna stands to make 35 billion from the vaccine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2020/11/16/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-could-add-nearly-35-billion-to-its-revenues/?sh=b391132396cf

It looks like you accept the covid death number, how about you answer my point in post 34?

“The exact same cause/effect argument could be used for covid itself, with the CDC reported fact that 94% of “covid” deaths were covid + an average of 2.6 comorbidities. Just because those 96% had covid when they died doesn’t mean they died from covid. 160K die every year from “chronic lower respiratory diseases” every year, well, except for 2020!”


103 posted on 01/12/2021 1:57:47 PM PST by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marilyn vos Savant)
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To: 2aProtectsTheRest

Reference to post 103;

CDC still says 94% of “covid” deaths are covid + 2.9% comorbidities. 6% are covid only.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm


130 posted on 01/13/2021 9:00:04 AM PST by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marilyn vos Savant)
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To: dynoman
"We don’t know what long term effects of the mRNA vaccines will be."

This is pure FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) through insinuation. The fact is, mRNA vaccines have been in development for decades. Moderna was specifically created over 10 years ago explicitly and exclusively to bring mRNA vaccines to market. That's their whole purpose, and they've been doing research and testing throughout that time. Other big pharma and biotech companies have been doing the same thing for a lot longer. This technology is new to market, but it's not new technology.

"why didn’t Moderna and Pfizer accept legal liability for their vaccines if they are so safe?"

Because that isn't their choice. Congress removed the jurisdiction of US courts to hear vaccine injury cases by law in 1986 with the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. There is literally nothing that Moderna or Pfizer or anyone except Congress can do to alter the jurisdiction of US courts. Moderna can't tell a court to take a case it explicitly lacks the jurisdiction to hear. They're a biotech company; not gods.

Bringing this up is a common anti-vaxxer tactic and they always make it sound like it's some new thing that just sprang up with the invention of the mRNA vaccine. It isn't. Congress did this 34 years ago because anti-vaxxers were launching so many nuisance suits against vaccine makers that the vaccine makers were going to go out of business. This is because anti-vaxxers are anti-choice. They claim they just want to be left alone, but what they really want is the entire vaccine industry destroyed. They want choice gone. Except their choice to not take vaccines. That's a "choice" they'll allow others to have. But the choice to take a vaccine? They want that gone.

Congress didn't want polio and pertussis and other horrible diseases to come back, so they removed the jurisdiction of the courts and created the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and made it incredibly easy to get compensation. They require no medical proof that a vaccine caused your injury. All you need to do is show that you have an injury, it happened some time after you got a vaccine, and provide some sort of plausible explanation for how the two are connected. If you can meet that ridiculously low bar, you get paid. How much? Average of six-figures. Up to $500,000 AVERAGE in some years.

And with that ridiculously low bar, and that insanely high payout, how often are people cashing in? About one payout per 1 million vaccinations.

"The exact same cause/effect argument could be used for covid itself, with the CDC reported fact that 94% of “covid” deaths were covid + an average of 2.6 comorbidities. Just because those 96% had covid when they died doesn’t mean they died from covid.

This old line about "died with COVID vs died from COVID" is really really old. Doctors sign death certificates. Have you looked at a US Standard Certificate of Death before? Look in Section 32 Part I. In Part I, the underlying cause of death (UCOD) is the bottom line filled out and the immediate cause of death is the top line filled out. Underlying cause of death is the disease or injury which initiated the chain of morbid events leading directly to death. Immediate cause of death is the final straw. For a cancer patient, they might list pancreatic cancer as the last line (underlying cause of death), one or two things where it escalated, and then acute renal failure in the top line as the immediate cause of death. This is a cancer death; no matter what's listed in the middle. Cancer caused the death. For a flu patient, you might see Influenza infection as the UCoD, then pneumonia, then hypoxemia as the immediate cause of death. This is a flu death. No matter what else happened to complicate things, flu began the chain of events.

Now look at Section 32 Part II. This is for significant conditions contributing to death, but which are NOT part of the chain of events leading from the underlying cause of death to the immediate cause of death. For our cancer patient, they may have had diabetes, congestive heart failure, and other issues. Some of these might complicate treatment. Some of them might just make it harder for the patient to fight the disease. For our flu patient, they might also have diabetes, or they might have hypertension, or other things. Part II is the stuff you've been dealing with all along. They didn't result in the UCoD. They didn't initiate the chain of events leading to death. If you have diabetes for 20 years and you die from metastatic breast cancer, that doesn't get listed as diabetes. And it doesn't make it any less a breast cancer death.

Now let's talk about COVID-19 and the CDC stats you're referencing. The CDC reported that 94% had some stuff listed in Part II of their death certificate. Who cares. The 6% who didn't have anything listed? That means they were otherwise believed to be healthy, normal individuals before they got COVID-19 and died. If you've had diabetes for 20 years and hypertension for 15 years, then you get COVID-19, develop pneumonia as a result, and die in 3 weeks, diabetes didn't kill you. It might have complicated your treatment and made it more difficult for you to survive, but it didn't kill you.

COVID-19 does a number of things to people. The most obvious is that it can basically sandblast the epithelial lining (protective barrier) of your lungs, leaving you very exposed to any random pneumonia that happens to be present or introduced. Pneumonia leads to further issues, and eventually the patient dies. What disease or injury initiated the chain of events leading directly to death? COVID-19. Other impacts from COVID-19 infection include significant blood clotting damage to various tissues, cytokine storm (uncontrolled inflammatory response from the immune system), and other problems. Each of those can lead to death. Each of those begins with COVID-19.

The doctors filling out these death certificates are not idiots and they are not risking medical malpractice lawsuits, Federal fraud charges, the loss of their medical licenses, the loss of their careers, the loss of their sole source of income, and the loss of their freedom trying to sneak a fast one in by falsifying 400,000 death certificates.

"160K die every year from “chronic lower respiratory diseases” every year, well, except for 2020!"

All other causes of death were at or slightly above normal levels in 2020:

But just the same, there's a huge spike in deaths for 2020 (~400,000):

So if deaths for all the regular things are at normal levels and deaths overall are way over normal (2,855,000 in 2019 vs 3,255,331 in 2020), and every doctor on Earth is talking about losing patients to COVID-19, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out what's going on.

I hope you're reading through what I'm sending you because it seems like you are coming at this from a genuine place. So if I can help you to understand why the numbers make sense, that's worthwhile. The sooner we can all agree the numbers are what they are, the sooner we can start asking the real questions. Such as why governors like Cuomo and Newsom (among others) forced nursing homes to accept known-infected COVID-19 patients, knowing that would kill tens of thousands unnecessarily. Why they made zero effort to protect the elderly, particularly those who have very limited mobility and options to protect themselves. Why Newsom chose to spend over $800 million taking homeless people from the outdoors (low risk of COVID-19 transmission per CDC) and putting them up in hotels (indoors, high risk of COVID-19 transmission per CDC). And dozens of other questions that add up to tens - if not hundreds - of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

These people should be on trial for criminally negligent homicide. But if we just sit here arguing over whether the numbers are perfect, or whether anyone's dying at all, then we never get there. We need to move past the nonsense and get to the serious business of holding these people accountable for their criminally negligent homicides.

133 posted on 01/13/2021 10:09:27 AM PST by 2aProtectsTheRest (The media is banging the fear drum enough. Don't help them do it.)
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