Posted on 12/01/2020 5:15:01 PM PST by george76
Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk said on Tuesday that electricity consumption will double if the world’s car fleets are electrified, increasing the need to expand nuclear, solar, geothermal and wind energy generating sources.
Increasing the availability of sustainable energy is a major challenge as cars move from combustion engines to battery-driven electric motors, a shift which will take two decades, Musk said in a talk hosted by Berlin-based publisher Axel Springer.
There’s no unicorn energy source or free lunch. Currently, electric cars are primarily powered by coal, natural gas, and nuclear. Those are the sources we use to generate electricity, after all, according to the Energy Information Agency. Renewables are growing but still account for less than 20% of U.S. electricity.
There’s no free lunch when it comes to renewable energy source, which may not even be all that renewable. Wind and sun are free, but the means of generating power from them are not.
They require batteries, which requires extensive mining and the use of toxic chemicals.
Mining is a dirty business.
...
Tens of thousands of aging blades are coming down from steel towers around the world and most have nowhere to go but landfills. In the U.S. alone, about 8,000 will be removed in each of the next four years.
...
the blades can’t easily be crushed, recycled or repurposed. That’s created an urgent search for alternatives in places that lack wide-open prairies. In the U.S., they go to the handful of landfills that accept them, in Lake Mills, Iowa; Sioux Falls, South Dakota; and Casper, where they will be interred in stacks that reach 30 feet ..
Removing them and transporting them to landfills increases windmills’ energy footprint over time.
...
more electric cars will require more electric generation.
(Excerpt) Read more at pjmedia.com ...
“4 miles for each kilowatt hour consumed”
That is over 60 mpg at today’s prices.
“He acknowledges that if a gasoline engine was as efficient as an electric motor, “
If pigs could fly!
And Central Africa is going to run out of child slaves to do the digging.
But it is common knowledge that solar is only cost effective with government (taxpayer) subsidies and tax credits. It's been that way for decades.
Spain had a big solar industry and it shut down essentially because the government ran out of money to subsidize the solar businesses. And we all remember Solyndra. Obama pushed it and praised it until it went bankrupt. All it accomplished was to launder money back to some of his political supporters who started the company in the form of government subsidies.
I looked into it when I built my new house in Florida and the up-front cost versus the years it would start paying for itself was 38 years. I chose to go with the regular electric provider instead. For 38 years I'll save money on my electric bill before the solar would have started paying for itself. I'm 73 years old. You do the math.
And solar panels need maintenance. Anything built to stand in the scorching sun is going to deteriorate after a few years. Parts and components need replacing. Roofs usually last 10-20 years. There is no reason to believe that solar system components on the roof will last longer without needing work or replacement too. And the panels need to be cleaned regularly to maintain their efficiency because of dust and dirt accumulation, which I learned in Arizona when I first looked into it. Arizona is a dusty place and so is Texas.
Solar hot water is feasible for most people and takes about 5 years to start paying for itself in savings. But to power the entire house with solar is cost prohibitive for most of the population or it just takes too long to recover those large up-front costs to start seeing any savings. Most people nowadays are in a house between 5 and 15 years.
If you have the excess funds and/or you're out in the middle of nowhere with no electric grid, solar probably makes sense. But most people can't afford it because of the costs involved.
When I investigated intalling solar on my existing home in Arizona, I read an article that claimed for solar to power the Valley of the Sun (Phoenix metro area) there would have to be an array of solar panels built that would run continuously to cover the entire desert from Phoenix to Tucson, a distance of 110 miles. Now how environmentally friendly would that be?
If solar or wind were economically feasible, everybody would be using them. But they are not. That's why after a quarter century, they still only provide 15-20% of the overall power to the country. They have their limits.
Thanks for you response.
“And Central Africa is going to run out of child slaves to do the digging.”
Fake news from the bleeding-heart liberals.
“those transformers need down time”
Did you once stay in a Holiday Inn?
“In order to have a range of ~300 miles on a charge, you have to buy the long range Model 3 for almost $50K.”
Base is 273. Long range (353) starts at $43k.
From a search online re AAA service:
“a quick charge in as little as 15 minutes, which will allow the vehicle to be driven up to 10 miles (depending on the vehicle)”
“heavy-duty pickup trucks with a generator that can add charge to the batteries and is run by the truck’s engine”
“a stand-alone generator in the back of the pickup, which will be powered by compressed natural gas. [These] trucks have Level 2 and DC fast-charging capability”
Found AAA’s “AAA-Electric-Vehicle-Range-Testing-Report.pdf”
https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/AAA-Electric-Vehicle-Range-Testing-Report.pdf
Tx for the pic.
Problem is that if the electricity is being produced by a gasoline or diesel motor (like in a train), the inefficiency of the source of the electricity has to be factored in.
Tesla says 263 for Standard+ RWD. EPA says 250. Bare bones is around $38K. The range I would assume is for a fully charged battery. If you take it on a road trip and need to fill it up at a supercharger, the practical fill up is 80% or 210 miles under ideal conditions. That might be acceptable for drivers in moderate climates. I need a little more range for the winter months..
Doing the math - using the AAA PDF file:
https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/AAA-Electric-Vehicle-Range-Testing-Report.pdf
as a reference, I find that 13.125 hours of AC Level 2 Charging, are required to sustain *real world 450 mile* daily (mostly highway) runs in 8 hours travel time. (Such as I can do now, with gasoline fuel.)
That, tells me that EV is short haul.
I am not satisfied that our country can safely and practically process the chemical and metal - battery problems - for as much as 20 percent EV presence on the roads.
And, we would need a lot of nuclear power.
And, we need an enormous amount of infrastructure pumping juice to charging stations, merely to sustain as much as 20 percent EV presence on the roads.
“Problem is that if the electricity is being produced by a gasoline or diesel motor (like in a train), the inefficiency of the source of the electricity has to be factored in.”
Only the electricity is NOT produced by gasoline or diesel motor.
Where I live it’s produced by burning coal. YMMV.
Now, if we could use nuclear power to power electric cars, that really would be a game changer.
“as a reference, I find that 13.125 hours of AC Level 2 Charging, are required to sustain *real world 450 mile* daily (mostly highway) runs in 8 hours travel time. (Such as I can do now, with gasoline fuel.)
That, tells me that EV is short haul.”
AC Level 2 is basically 240v home charging. Enroute superchargers deliver MUCH faster charging rates.
Mode 4 is 400 amps at 600 volts. We will soo be looking at full charging in 30 minutes
“And, we need an enormous amount of infrastructure pumping juice to charging stations, merely to sustain as much as 20 percent EV presence on the roads.”
The Model T was in production for five years before the first gas station opened!
“I am not satisfied that our country can safely and practically process the chemical and metal - battery problems”
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-rrd-Part201CitizensGuide_247033_7.pdf
But, but, but... I thought if no exhaust was coming out of a tailpipe that it was unicorn free energy...How can this be? How can this be? /s
Actually Tesla is just about there if the car is capable of taking advantage of the new V3 supercharging stations that are capable of dumping 250KWH into the car. The batteries will take the full charge rate for the first 50% to 60% of battery capacity and then start to taper off. There is no longer any power sharing among stalls. The problem is I don't think these V3 supercharging stations are wide spread yet..
China is going into electric cars on a widespread basis.
Electric cars powered by coal fired electric plants...including hundreds of new coal fired plants in the planning stage and under construction.
They are going to use less oil.
So more for us.
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