the greatest irony in the case forever okay so I bragged about judge Sullivan for years everywhere across the country bragged about judge Sullivan for requiring the government to produce Brady evidence in the Ted Stevens case but what I didn't expect was for judge Sullivan to deny every single Brady request a document we asked for every single one in a 92 page decision that was just raging I was flabbergasted in the court case against Lieutenant General Michael Flynn the US Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit has ordered judge Emmett Sullivan to grant the do Jay's request to dismiss but what will happen next in the eyes of general Flynn's attorney Sidney Powell what are the implications of judge Sullivan keeping the case open is there more exculpatory evidence to come in the Flynn case and what are some possible steps to take to strengthen the US Department of Justice as an institution in this episode we sit down with Sidney Powell counsel for General Michael Flynn she is also the author of license to lie and conviction machine this is American thought-leaders and I'm Janiak Alec [Music] Sidney Powell such a pleasure to have you back on American thought-leaders oh thank you for having me it's always a pleasure to talk with you well you know you've been very busy that's the understatement of the century and I'm gonna ask you in a little bit you know kind of what it's taken to work on this on general Flynn's case but let's talk about where we are today the DC Circuit Court of Appeals has basically said has ordered judge Sullivan to close the case and I think he had 24 hours to do so and he didn't do it so what's going on where are we at here well they don't really put a time limit on the order but I can't say in my decades of practice and we're not going to number those that I've ever seen a judge not do what he was told to do by what's called a writ of mandamus or extraordinary writ an order directly from the Circuit Court of Appeals to do something they always do it within 24 to 48 hours I just haven't seen that happen with the possible exception of one case way back when I had to get a writ of mandamus issued against a federal district judge twice in the same case now we are certainly hoping that doesn't have to happen here and that the order will be signed shortly because he's not party to the case that doesn't mean the full court can't review the case on its own but it would be unprecedented to do so in these circumstances there's so many unprecedented things related I keep hearing you know something new happens and you know even months ago and I hear unprecedented how about you give us a bit of perspective they don't give outline kind of this journey from the time that you came on as general Flynn's attorney well I had been concerned about this case from the beginning from the very beginning I was writing about it as writing articles for the Daily Caller and and other publications about what I was seeing in it and it all kind of followed on from my book license to like supposing corruption in the department justice and I didn't touch the issues with the Muller task force Special Counsel operation until I saw that they brought Andrew Weissman in and I knew he was actually going to head it because he is what I call the lead villain in license to lie he is widely known for making up crimes hiding evidence that shows people are innocent and just railroading people with the enormous pressure that the federal government can bring to bear against an individual when they're indicted so I became immediately concerned then and then the more I saw come out about the Flynn case and how it was being handled the more concerned I was all the red flags were there so you saw this how is it that you I guess got connected with with Flynn you know I can't I know I went to the first hearing when Judge Sullivan was going to have a status conference on the case because judge Sullivan ironically enough is a judicial hero of license to lie I've been bragging on him for seven years calling him the judicial hero of license aligned bragging about his Brady order and touting it as as him being the leading judge in the country for requiring the government to produce the evidence that shows a defendant is innocent so I remember one of the first articles I wrote was hey judge Sullivan's got this case now flinch had moved to withdraw his guilty plea because he's he's a champion against government misconduct and hiding evidence that shows people were innocent and I just knew evidence was being hidden again that would have exonerated general Flint so I attended that hearing just to get a feel for how it was going as somebody interested in the issue I speak on these topics all the time and then when he had the sentencing hearing I just happened to be in DC and went to that somewhere in there I had met one of his brother his brother Joe at some event in Dallas a seminar or something and we had talked a little bit about how outraged I was over what I was seeing kind of gave him the day to dump on the book and then it was sometime late in the spring of 2019 I guess that the general contacted me so it's an incredible thing isn't it that you have both wise men involved in the Muller investigation and then you have Sullivan judges all have been involved in in this case and they're both you know very prominent I never imagined myself appearing before Judge Sullivan in any kind of case at all much less the Flynn case on Brady's never so you know the general called you and did you think there was something wrong with the way that his defense team was functioning or what how did this transpire now this shift well I was very concerned that I had seen things happen so quickly with respect to his guilty plea and without any Brady motions being filed at all in the case I mean the docket was a page or two the doctor sheet was a page or two I've never seen that in a criminal case especially one where I just knew there was so much wrong with the prosecution so at first I thought I could work as perhaps co-counsel with Covington and then it pretty soon became apparent that that was not going to work out at all and realized that they had a massive conflict of interest I didn't know when I first got into it that they're the ones that had actually done the foreign agent Registration Act filing that was why he went to them in the first place because Rob Kilner was widely known as being one of the leading authorities for filing the foreign agent Registration Act form that the Department of Justice had written Flynn a letter about not long after he was named incoming in Si ironically enough and that was because he had simply written an head for the hill that was very opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood and so the Pharaoh letter had issued he sought out Covington to help with that and then I realized in the process of talking to them about it that they had done the Ferrer registration and other issues came up that I can't discuss but anyway he wound up terminating Covington and Burling 'z representation of him and I took over the case probably last June or so he almost a year roughly a year ago you know it's also incredible because there's some you know massive costs that went into this already right i some Millions hey I don't I don't know the exact numbers but then to switch a council like this you know and I mean it's a bit of a risk right yes it is definitely a risk and of course you know the media was full of concern about it because everybody had touted the great deal he had Covington had gotten for him well it's not a great deal if you're innocent and I talked to him at length about the entire situation I was absolutely convinced the man is innocent he is as honest as the day is long and no more patriotic person has ever walked the face of this earth and Michael Flynn who has devoted his life to this country serving five years in active combat deployed overseas and some absolute hell holes and you know he he's the real deal it didn't take me long digging in the file to see that there was a whole lot of Brady evidence that the government had produced clues to but not the actual evidence of and because I had done the same thing in the brown case that I wrote about in license to lie I when Eric Holder came in on in the Department of Justice and moved to dismiss the Ted Stevens case I thought he was serious about cleaning up the department of justice back then I represented a Merrill Lynch defendant who had been the victim of made-up crimes and hidden evidence and all of that so I wrote Eric Holder a very lengthy letter in fact it wound up being about fifty pages with exhibits to try to get his attention on the in justices in the brown case because it was still going on so I decided I would write a letter to the Department of Justice and try to get it resolved without another black eye against the department mm and that letter wound up being attached by mr. van gock to one of his filings in judge Sullivan's court and of course he responded to it within a few weeks of me having written it denying that there was any Brady evidence in the case whatsoever despite the fact he had produced a list of things that contained exculpatory evidence but not given us the actual evidence fascinating so you were petitioned to solvent on to get this exculpatory Brady evidence but then something happened you didn't expect I think oh yes the greatest irony in the case forever okay that's so I bragged about judge Sullivan for years everywhere across the country bragged about judge Sullivan for requiring the government to produce Brady evidence in the Ted Stevens case and dismissing that case on the government's motion because they had hidden the evidence that showed he was innocent so I filed a lengthy I think it was probably I don't know 45 or 50 page brief asking and detailing all the Brady evidence that the government was hiding in this case including DIA defense intelligence agency briefings where general Flynn had told them about all his foreign contacts before he even made them he told them about his trips to Russia and and had them brief him on things they wanted him to collect for them while he was over there and had been reported back to them immediately he briefed them on his turkey contact he pre briefed everything he was doing religiously and there was nothing secret at all and his company had even filed what's called a lobbying Disclosure Act formed to comply with the Fair registration requirements on advice of counsel back when they first start doing anything related to Turkey so the whole thing was blown up from nothing so here I've been bragging on judge Sullivan I filed this Brady motion that as solid as it can be the government replies there's no Brady there's no Brady there's no Brady you pled guilty he pled guilty he pled guilty which has nothing to do with it judge Sullivan's Brady order requires the production of Brady even after somebody's pled guilty and a prosecutor's Brady obligation continues even after conviction and sentencing so that made no sense at all and I thought surely judge Sullivan of all people is going to give us at least the actual documents that the government itself has listed as having information that was favorable to the defense and also thought he'd give me a security clearance to review any of the things that the government had deemed quote classified end quote which turned out to be you know we find much later as evidence of their own guilt there's a lot of what they had classified and that's what I expected to find but what I didn't expect was for judge Sullivan to deny every single Brady request a document we asked for every single one in a 92 page decision that was just raging I was flabbergasted I mean I had been convinced that he would do the right thing and we would get Brady and once we got any Brady at all the case would start failing and the government would have to move to dismiss it because of what they had hidden but he backed the prosecutor backed Vondrak up all the way and I mean I knew Vondrak was standing there lying to the court every time he said anything so okay well so what's going through your head and you're reading this 92 page ruling a decision right um what are you thinking what I don't know maybe you can't tell me everything you're thinking well it was basically what in the world what in the world is going on here why it just made no sense whatsoever according to the law or the judge Sullivan that I had seen and written about and bragged on in the Ted Stevens case just did not jive and the fact that general Flynn had pled guilty had nothing to do with any of it because number one the judge's order required the production even after a plea of guilty as it should and number two they had been hiding it from the very beginning so you know this is actually let's let's segue a little bit here because there's a lot to be said in your writings about people pleading guilty in this country in general the stats are unbelievable and I'm kind of shocked that this isn't generally known how often and you know you know this a thousand times better than I do but can you kind of outline how often people actually plead guilty irrespective of the reality of the situation and why in about 95 percent of the federal cases I'm not sure of the State Statistics it's probably the same people plead guilty and so there are very few trials if you do go to trial the government has a 98 to 99 percent win rate so the deck is so stacked in favor of the government that if courts don't make them produce Brady evidence and they need to be made to produce it pre plea all of it people don't stand a chance we've seem to have lost the presumption of innocence everybody thinks that once someone's indicted of course all you hear is the language of the indictment printed in the newspapers and Wiseman and his cronies including Vondrak can make giving your mother a Christmas present sound like a federal criminal offense the way they describe it that's what they did to the Merrill Lynch defendants in the Enron litigation they made a simple business transaction a perfectly legitimate business transaction sound like a criminal conspiracy and deprivation of honest services and wire fraud and it wasn't and people spent a year in prison on those false allegations of any criminal conduct and then the Fifth Circuit ultimately held the conduct wasn't criminal the same thing happened Arthur Andersen to the destruction of 85,000 jobs on an indictment that pieced together parts of two different statutes to make a crime out of something that was not so federal prosecutors have incredible power very little supervision no accountability they want to destroy qualified immunity for police officers who have to act in split-second life-threatening circumstances faster than most people can even comprehend what's going on prosecutors have absolute immunity they can't be sued at all for anything and so there's no accountability they're not held accountable by Bar Association's for hiding evidence that's shown in license to lie also they're not held accountable by the Office of Professional Responsibility and the Department of Justice the Ted Stevens case is an example of that so they just do what they want to do and nothing happens to them no matter how many lives they destroyed or how many innocent people they sent to prison the National Registry of exonerations contains over 500 names of people who had pled guilty but were later exonerated because what we now call the conviction machine in a new book Harvey silverglade and I wrote it is so crushing for an individual to try to stand up against it regardless of their station in life I mean look at what happened to general Flynn imagine what happens to somebody that doesn't have his standing his spotless record his financial resources thanks to the generosity of the American people who have funded our defense fund from increments in $1.00 to $10,000 so if you've got a strike against you and you get indicted you are toast so you know clearly judicial reform is something you're a big advocate for yes I've been working on it for 20 years and why don't we why don't we put put a pin in that one because I want to think about that a little bit more later I want to get back to kind of the progression here of the story you know a US attorney gender which we didn't know about right I mean oh yeah I think nobody knew there was no leaking right and this was another major turn or I don't know if I'm missing one or not but but tell me more about this progression now since this moment where you realized the Brady evidence was going to be is denied that was the real stunning blow I'm the next the government I think moved to proceed with the sentencing against him and in the process of doing that they Vondrak was enraged about a number of things not the least of which was his case in the Eastern District of Virginia against Flynn's business partner mr. Rafiq Ian had led to a judgment of acquittal by the district court judge because there wasn't any evidence of a conspiracy even enough to get in the co-conspirator hearsay statements and again the government had no crime there and said the judge had thrown that out Flynn had been supposed to testify in that case and we were trying to cooperate with the government and in fact we went to multiple meetings and and I went with him and aren't full intent was to cooperate with him until one day they wanted him to lie and so that all blew up and Vondrak was enraged in fact he screamed at me over the speaker friend last summer probably about the middle of July or early July and just kind of went off the rails and I told him there were no circumstances under which he was going to testify to something that was not true he wanted him to admit that he knew these statements on the fara form were false when he filed it he did not he had paid Covington and Burling hundreds of thousands of dollars to get it right he had no idea how the bloomin thing was supposed to read frankly I don't think the statements were false in the faroe filing anyway they certainly weren't material what difference does it make who initiated the op-eds the fear of filing revealed when I dug into the fara filing even I realized that the government itself had made up the false statements they had taken out blocks of keywords from the fara filing itself to say that something was false when it wasn't and otherwise Covington had admitted and emails that we found later that they knew the false statements weren't false we've briefed that and all the briefs by the way are available on my website at Sydney pal comm with the exhibits so mr. van grek was enraged to by all of that he was so enraged that when he requested the sentencing be set he revoked and said he was withdrawing two motions or positions that had been key to the plea agreement that was a breach of the plea agreement so then we moved to withdraw his plea general Finn's plea for mr. van graffs breach of the plea agreement and by then we had also found all kinds of other reasons that warranted withdrawing the plea and we briefed those at length and those are also available on my website but there never should have been a plea there was a combination of Covington's conflict of interests from having done the fara filing they should have withdrawn as we briefed back in August of 2017 and then there were ineffective assistance of counsel issue specifically so egregious that he was deprived of his Sixth Amendment right to counsel judge Sullivan's quote extended plea colloquy didn't cover key questions that should have been asked if he if that was going to reaffirm the plea at all and judge Sullivan had even ended that plea colloquy as he called it it was supposed to have been a sentencing but all of a sudden general Flynn is up there with Covington lawyers beside him who were hopelessly conflicted a situation he doesn't fully understand and then the judge is asking him all these questions he wasn't expecting about his plea turns out covington had briefed him only to whatever you do a a firm your plea don't seek to withdraw it if he gives you an opportunity with the draw it he's giving you the rope to hang yourself that was their advice as we briefed so he was completely blindsided by that whole thing thank goodness judge Sullivan at that stage gave him an opportunity to postpone his sentencing and he took that opportunity that's another huge irony because then that ultimately led to him consulting me before he went to testify in the Eastern District of Virginia and essentially changed helped change the course of history it's incredible and this and this is all like not knowing what attorney US attorney gentle is doing right fascinating yep and then all of a sudden we start getting Brady evidence in yeah we've gotten all the briefing done of the issues to withdraw his plea and we also filed a motion to dismiss for egregious government misconduct because another thing that happened that was very important was the huge Inspector General report that came out in mid-december of 2019 that was a whole nother instance documenting massive government misconduct judge Sullivan at the government's request had even postponed our briefing scheduled to allow for that report to come forward but yet when he issued the massive Brady order denying everything he didn't consider anything in there at all or give us chance to brief it to show how it would affect the Brady issues or anything and it revealed the stunning fact that agent PN qey the one of the two FBI agents who interviewed general Flynn on January 24 that formed the basis of the government's whole case against Flynn had been slipped into a presidential briefing back on August 17 2016 for the sole purpose of collecting information on Flynn gauging and assessing his manner is in case they ever needed to interview him later ie if Donald Trump is put in the White House and general Flynn is there with him that was such an abuse of FBI authority that Christopher Rea immediately said it would never happen again and more recently than that the odni has said that the FBI will no longer be allowed to participate in those briefings Wow that's how bad it was so that caused me to do the motion to dismiss for egregious government misconduct because we had not moved to dismiss before the end we had said we would when we got more Brady evidence and we expected to get it but we hadn't actually moved to do it and that was just stunning evidence there was more in there to but that that was the big nugget that was relevant to Flynn and mr. P Enka had told the inspector general how it related to the Flynn interview on January 24th that gave far more credibility even to the fact that both those agents including PN Kahoot interviewed him then believed he was telling the truth he had a baseline read on him to judge that by and they had briefed three different groups of people in the upper echelon of the FBI and the DOJ after the interview to the effect that they believed him or felt like or knew he believed he was telling the truth which is another thing that would completely negate any false statement by general Flynn whether he remembered all the details of the calls or not and then we find evidence that shows that they deliberately schemed and planned how to interview him that day to avoid letting him know he was even the subject of the interview they had planned that they had had meetings to discuss how to keep him unguarded and relaxed so that he wouldn't even know he was the subject of the interview and they chose multiple ways to violate their own rules they discussed the rules and they rejected following them in each instance with respect to general Flynn that was in several material ways first they didn't give him any notion that 1001 was involved he thought he was just talking to two colleagues about issues they'd been there even two days before doing a briefing and everything for the whole White House staff in just a thousand and one to clarify yes that's the federal false statement statute if the FBI even suspects to any degree someone is not telling them the truth their standard operating procedure is to remind the person that anything they say to an FBI agent can be prosecuted as a federal felony with a five-year penalty under 18 United States Code section 1001 the false statement statute so they deliberately decided no matter what happened in that interview with general Flynn not to even mention 1001 much less the full statement of what it means so that was one of their deliberate choices not to follow protocol another was if they're going to ask people about prior statements they have records of and they had full transcripts of his phone calls with all the foreign contacts they either had a pin register on his phone or they had a FISA against him I still don't know but they were monitoring all his phone calls and they had transcripts of them they didn't show him and they decided not to show him the transcripts of those phone calls as they were questioning about it and questioning him about them so there was no point to question him they already knew what he said after mr. Jensen became involved we learned that they had completely closed or ordered the file closed on him from the investigation they falsely started back in August of 2016 they had even put surveillance on him they had not found a single piece of derogatory information about him 33 years in the government and no derogatory information they searched the files of other three-letter agencies that were blacked out but we can imagine which those are not the least of which was a Defense Intelligence Agency that he had headed for President Obama and I would guess one of them was the CIA but anyway there are plenty of government files on general Flynn and not a piece of derogatory information in one of them they had no basis to talk to him about anything and they still went over there that day and ambushed him one of the things we found that the government never did disclose to us was a text message between Strock and page On January 10 of 2017 talking about struck and pre-snap we're sitting there watching CNN and the whole BuzzFeed and thing about the Steele dossier exploded in the news thanks to you know clapper or Brennan or somebody leaking it to CNN and BuzzFeed and then Comey briefing President Trump on it in Trump Tower on January 6 after being in the meeting in the Oval Office with the eights and clapper and Brennan and Comey and rice and Obama and Biden on January 5th so they're talking about using that as a pretext to go interview some people that's Brady the government still hasn't given me found it accidentally just doing my own independent research fascinating so I mean effectively US Attorney genin suddenly came forth me and basically passed to you all sorts of Brady yes he gave us the report that the FBI Washington field office had ordered the investigation closed he gave us several pages of new text messages between Strock and page indicating the flurry of activity on January third and fourth struck trying to reopen the case at the direction of the seventh floor meaning the leadership of the FBI and then just this past week in fact it was almost the same time the court issued its writ of mandamus we got a stunning piece of handwritten notes from agent Strock that indicate he had been talking or somebody had been talking with President Obama and Biden that seems to indicate Biden is the one who mentioned pursuing a Logan Act theory against flan which not only has never been successfully prosecuted in 200 years but raises all kinds of constitutional issues about whether it's even a valid statute and would have no application whatsoever to the incoming national security advisor for the President of the elect of the United States because they're supposed to talk to foreign leaders about things and not get blindsided the day they come into office so to even discuss that with President Obama and Biden was remarkable and then Obama according to the notes said make sure you get the right look at these things and get the right people on it you know it's really interesting because this this last group I guess of rady exculpatory evidence it comes you know after the government has already decided to close the case yes like I said they have a continuing obligation to produce anything they find no matter when they find it that doesn't stop until the case is completely gone so you might be getting a file tomorrow yeah I mean the longer just Sullivan takes to dismiss the case the more stuff they owe me there's still a long list of things that I know are there from the government's own from Van racks own Brady letters that I know us there there's a January 30 memo inside the Department of Justice completely exonerating general flan of all things Russia January 30 2017 while he was still in the White House and not only did they not tell him of all those things for his defense of this case or back then they used the Flynn prosecution to gin up an obstruction of justice prosecution or impeachment hoax of President Trump coming new when he talked that a president on February 14 2017 that Flynn had been cleared of everything so when the president said Flynn's a good guy I hope you know this is going to go he should have told him it's already gone mr. president we cleared him weeks ago in a steady runs to his car and writes another dear diary that he to the New York Times about how the president's trying to obstruct justice by just hoping the Flynn case is gone when it was already gone faster day I mean it's I guess it's this rabbit hole that keeps going deeper and deeper as we keep learning more information we've been covering this whole these I guess all of these different related issues from the get-go you know yeah the number of years and and it's it's it's just unbelievable watching how it evolved and of course we're kind of in the midst of I guess history being written here it's completely yes so yes I could get in fact I I heard there's more to come more Brady evidence to come and there has to be because like I said I know they're documents they're from the government's own list that show he's innocent so okay right now a few days have passed this DC Circuit Court has said now close this case judge Sullivan it hasn't happened what what do you expect is going on right now why the delay and what's being considered well it could be that they're discussions going on inside the DC Circuit as to whether the court as a whole I call it on bonk from the French expression and Bank when the courts it's in all the judges all the active not senior but all the regular judges of the DC Circuit would sit on bonk and reviewed the decision of the panel that would be the only way to change the decision of the panel and even more compelling is the fact that the very well written and authoritative decision of the two judges of the panel who signed on to it rests on a very well written decision by the chief judge of the DC Circuit and it is authoritative on the very issues in this case when a rule 48 a motion to dismiss is brought by the government the Eve of Court provision that's in it is according to the Supreme Court is only there to protect the defendant from harassment the government filed the most substantial motion to dismiss I have seen in my time of in practice it's a hundred pages including all the Excel pataw Reeb rady evidence that was found and there's nothing to inquire about the district judge doesn't get to go behind the documents that have been filed to inquire into the decision of the executive to dismiss any more than the executive could probe behind the Court of Appeals decision to see why and who and whatever happened to create that decision it's separation of powers in our Constitution at the very basic level c1 then there's also this the order to vacate the amicus yes judge Sullivan and the first thing he did that went off the rails after the motion to dismiss was to name a quote friend of the court an amicus to pursue the case in the stead of the government so his friend was going to brief it and did brief it both against the government and the defense as to why the case shouldn't be dismissed he doesn't get to appoint a special prosecutor that's all within the power of the Department of Justice to decide what is going to be prosecuted and when nevermind the incredible double standard of you know how they treated other people who might have been prosecuted for things and weren't so you know you when we were talking offline you always have a plan a plan B Plan C for everything maybe you don't want to you know reveal all your cards but what do you expect will happen here are you ready to take this to the Supreme Court your exam whatever whatever we need to do I mean I came in this case believing in my clients innocence believing the judge Sullivan was going to do the right thing and that we'd be done by now but I know he's innocent and I will not stop until that is totally proven and the Supreme Court denies my petition for rehearing it's necessary you know we are going to continue this fight however long it takes and wherever guys what about I mean there's a lot of unanswered questions here presumably and the material that you've seen there's a lot of things that pertain to this whole you know that's called the Russia collusion scenario there's there's there's basically a lot of material that's now I guess under not available to the general public to view that that the public may be interested in that what do you expect will happen with all this let's say the case closes and let's say you do let's say that the case is over in the in a few days what would happens to all of that well anything that was produced to us under the protective order there's a possibility that it has to be returned to the government of course we have filed a lot of documents publicly with the agreement of the government they've been unsealed or publicly filed so those are still available some other things I would think would be highly relevant to mr. Durham's investigation in fact I'm pretty sure that a few of the things we have gotten actually came from that because I can't they didn't have markings of government forms or files and that's the only way I can think of they they might have gotten them is if somebody gave them to him or they were a result of a grand jury subpoena or something they didn't have of course there was a lot redacted but it didn't look like an official government thing so there's still a whole lot more information that needs to be brought out for the people to know all the truth about everything that happened both with respect to general Flynn and President Trump and the whole situation writ large but we have a lot more insight into it now that we've put all the pieces together that we have with respect to Flynn so for you and general Flynn and everyone in but it's a waiting game yes at this point yes yes but what am I getting to benefit from that you get to sit down right yes that's right otherwise I would have had a brief to you at noon Friday another one due shortly and yes so the briefing schedule has been completely terminated and the hearing schedule has been terminated but the case has not been terminated so you know give me a sense of you know what the workload has been like on this case oh roughly twenty hours a day seven days a week since I got into it I mean we had covington gave us 18 hard drives of information and then we found out hopefully that was another unexpected twist that I'd forgotten about only a few months ago they let us know they hadn't produced everything right yes and there were another I forgot how many tens of thousands of documents and then we found out we still don't have it all so there are a lot of unanswered questions from many directions so you know you've been working on this I know Molly McCann has come and worked with you we've talked about her I've been communicating with her a bit who is actually working on this case the core team has been Molly of course who happened along the way the last summer probably about a year ago right now God send in every way and then my co-counsel who was local counsel but I wanted them to serve more as co-counsel and they have certainly fulfilled that role is Jesse banal with the Harvey banal firm and in Alexandria and Lindsey McKesson who works with him maybe much younger lawyer and then a baby lawyer Abbey Frey who's in her first year of practice have just been absolutely extraordinary they have put in long hours and been right there to do what we needed and it was so amazing to see the right person show up at the right time with the right information throughout this case and we also had a couple of secret weapons from general Flint's family that were invaluable his niece Alisha cuts her from Pennsylvania is a terrific lawyer she can find things research facts and law amazingly well and came up with key decisions that we needed at the right time and his sister Claire Eckhart who is a brilliant paralegal and communications strategist and has her own company we just put together people who understood what had gone wrong and what needed to be done and proceeded to do it any sense of where mr. van crock has gone after leaving the case well he was head of the fara division at the Department of Justice I'm assuming he's still there I would certainly hope he is under a serious OPR investigation because his conduct in this case and denying there was Brady material was appalling completely unethical not to mention the temper tantrum he threw at me when I told him Flynn was not going to line that he was asking him to lie which he knew by the way because he had edited the plea agreement to take out the specific language he didn't insisted mr. Flynn admit to that was just a rather remarkable interchange we still have a lot of work to do tying up some loose ends so and with respect to general Flynn he's very been very very quiet over quite a number of years recently there were a few short interviews yeah they weren't really interviews he called into a few radio shows before everything got turned upside down by Judge Sullivan not signing the order just to say thank you to the American public and the radio hosts in particular who have been so supportive of him and helped raise money for the Defense Fund I mean we've been operating off the generosity of the American people and a lot of the donations have been what I would call the Widow's mite fascinating and so has is he under a gag order is that the no there's no real gag order but discretion being the better part of valor and he is full of valor he has chosen to try to let the system work its way out that's what I've been determined to see happen to make the justice system itself work and to pound on the Department of Justice to do the right thing here and restore its own reputation by moving to dismiss and acknowledge the wrong conduct of its agents and attorneys that is hugely important to restoring people's confidence in the rule of law the FBI and the Justice Department it's it's an imperative it's absolutely imperative that the Department of Justice returned to the time when it was self correct it's huge I mean when I was as an assistant US attorney I was raised to tell the judge the truth whatever it was the good the bad the ugly I'm on the record and the Fifth Circuit footnote for saying the agents botched it the judge quoted me in the footnote in the in the decision we still won because it turned out to be harmless error but I wasn't going to say they had done the right thing when they did not that's the way an assistant US attorney is supposed to be somewhere in the last 20 years we lost that we came to a time when these people think the end justifies the means they're using the law as a weapon to destroy people innocent people that destroy people's lives and that's not what our system of justice is about so the Department of Justice has got to start standing up for the right thing the only politics in this prosecution was from the very beginning of it on the side of prosecuting general Flynn at all and I'm convinced now in particular that what Attorney General Barr is trying very hard to do is right the ship you know so this actually brings us to that pin that we put in earlier about this reform that that you feel is needed you're you know suggesting some some things in a very broad way but you know this is a very big ship and you know it's it's once it started going it's kind of hard to get it to come back or very what's very difficult it's gonna be very difficult but it can be done so what would it has to be done if we're gonna survive it's a constitutional republic built on the rule of law so what are your you know kind of key recommendations and you know you've written about some of this of course but but at this point if you were to sit down with general bar and say you know here's here's my steers what I would suggest I'd fire any prosecutor that intentionally violated the brady rule i would make it known immediately that if you know you have intentionally violated the rules that requires you to produce exculpatory evidence to any defendant or you have criminalized innocent conduct or you have made up a crime you've got two minutes to give me your resignation and and then otherwise there should be a sporadic independent file review i'd like to see a conviction Integrity review unit set up to review some of the more egregious cases by people independent sort of the line prosecutors and whose goal is to look for errors the inspector general's not enough for that he doesn't have the authority needed to do what would need to be done for full file reviews the same needs to be done with respect to the FBI the inspector general is doing that on multiple thys applications and finding more and more fraudulent visa applications every agent who did that should be fired yesterday they cannot have government officials trusted with the power of the sovereign of the United States of America lying to federal judges it's just it it just can't happen it's completely unacceptable and there have to be immediate repercussions for that and another thing is the FBI should be required to record all its interviews right it's a simple enough matter they all have multiple recording devices on their persons at all times and people should be told at the beginning that anything they say can be used against them by the FBI or a court that's a federal felony to lie to an FBI agent and then decide whether they want to cooperate with the FBI or not and if it's not recorded it should not be used for any purpose there's some pretty concrete suggestions any final words before we finish up one of the important things that we didn't hit is that the fact that the FBI actually made up the false statements that they then charged general Flynn with they altered the FBI report of the interview since it wasn't recorded and the government has admitted in their motion to dismiss that there are statements in the 302 that were not reflected in the notes of either agent and they used those statements as quote the basis for the false statement charges and then there are things in the notes that didn't I couldn't make sense out of them until I saw the Declassified transcripts of the calls and then I knew that he had told them things about the call that they had not put in the report so it ran both ways they didn't put in things he did say that were true and they added things to it claiming he said them that he did not say they made up the false statements and so you know your your prescription for four agents that do this sort of thing is pretty clear yep fire on me yesterday at a minimum and frankly what they've done is obstruction of justice for which they should be prosecuted the Department of Justice is going to have to start prosecuting agents and lawyers who lie to the court and make up crimes against innocent people what do you make I have to ask you this but you know there's this you know large organizations of any sort have a certain sort of inertia kind of a will will to perpetuate whatever themselves I suppose that's something I've noticed over the years in the various scenarios and also you know there's this desire also to I guess it's interesting because to maintain the integrity of the I think there's people that feel that if you know if all of this terrible stuff is expose no one will trust the Justice Department anymore know that I think the precise opposite is true it's exposing what actually happened and remedying it by the Department of Justice itself acting on it and the FBI acting on it that will restore public trust hiding it is going to make everything worse nothing ever got solved by sweeping it under the rug Sidney Powell such a pleasure to have you thank you yawn it's always a pleasure to be here and we thank the American people writ large for all their support for general Flynn their prayers we have felt uplifted by their prayers and the whole team appreciates all of it [Music]
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