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To: ealgeone

I don’t know who told you what and on what particular matter of consent.

In general, any Catholic apologist would know that it is possible to find a quote from the Fathers to support nearly anything; the issue is whether that something made into consensus.


527 posted on 08/25/2018 5:41:57 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
I don’t know who told you what and on what particular matter of consent.

Your fellow Roman Catholics have told us that numerous times.

But as has been seen unanimous means different things to different people in Roman Catholicism. A lot seems to come down to which dogma they're trying to defend.

From catholiconvert.com

The Unanimous Consent of the Fathers (unanimem consensum Patrum) refers to the morally unanimous teaching of the Church Fathers on certain doctrines as revealed by God and interpretations of Scripture as received by the universal Church. The individual Fathers are not personally infallible, and a discrepancy by a few patristic witnesses does not harm the collective patristic testimony.

The word “unanimous” comes from two Latin words: únus, one + animus, mind. “Consent” in Latin means agreement, accord, and harmony; being of the same mind or opinion. Where the Fathers speak in harmony, with one mind overall—not necessarily each and every one agreeing on every detail but by consensus and general agreement—we have “unanimous consent”. The teachings of the Fathers provide us with an authentic witness to the apostolic tradition.

St. Irenaeus (ad c. 130–c. 200) writes of the “tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome’ (Against Heresies, III, 3, 2), and the “tradition which originates from the apostles [and] which is preserved by means of the successions of presbyters in the Churches” (Ibid., III, 2, 2) which “does thus exist in the Church, and is permanent among us” (Ibid., III, 5, 1). Unanimous consent develops from the understanding of apostolic teaching preserved in the Church with the Fathers as its authentic witness.

St. Vincent of Lerins, explains the Church’s teaching: “In the Catholic Church itself, all possible care must be taken, that we hold that faith which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and in the strictest sense “Catholic,” which, as the name itself and the reason of the thing declare, comprehends all universally. This rule we shall observe if we follow universality, antiquity, consent. We shall follow universality if we confess that one faith to be true, which the whole Church throughout the world confesses; antiquity, if we in no wise depart from those interpretations which it is manifest were notoriously held by our holy ancestors and fathers; consent, in like manner, if in antiquity itself we adhere to the consentient definitions and determinations of all, or at the least of almost all priests and doctors” (Commonitory 2). Notice that St. Vincent mentions “almost all priests and doctors”.

540 posted on 08/25/2018 7:11:58 AM PDT by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE!)
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To: annalex; ealgeone
In general, any Catholic apologist would know that it is possible to find a quote from the Fathers to support nearly anything; the issue is whether that something made into consensus.

Exactly what we've been saying all along.

So there is no concesus.

If you're going by majority rules, that's a pretty weak way to determine truth.

551 posted on 08/25/2018 8:33:57 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith......)
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