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To: x
And the assumption that all of some "them" doesn't care and you do, is also pretty smarmy.

I cannot influence events over 150 years ago, I can only look at them. My observation is that all the upheaval had nothing to do with what was in the best interest of black people, and any subsequent concern was an afterthought, and I suspect entirely based on political advantage.

It's confusing, too: you've transformed yourself into some 19th century fellow who's indifferent as regards slavery, or even supportive, but then you claim to be a modern-day person who cares when it's a way of sticking the knife into other 19th century fellows.

I am not indifferent, I think no one should be coerced to serve others against their will except in punishment of a crime. I simply wish to keep clarity on what were the primary contests, what is the noise, and what is the lesser concerns.

I am also more concerned with what affects me in the here and now and from whence it came. The issue of slavery may be very dear to some, but me and mine had nothing to do with it either in the past or in the present, and I am far more concerned about this out of control "cabal" running our Capitol city now.

When I was in high school my best friend was black. He and I shared a lot of interests, especially in science fiction and military technology, and we talked about many different subjects. My primary concern at that time was the possibility of being incinerated by Soviet Nuclear ICBMs (for Obvious reasons growing up next to a US Military base) and my secondary concerns were things like Taxes and the effort of government to undermine civil society through abortion, the normalization of homosexuality, and assaults against the culture such as banning prayer in schools and such.

His primary concern was racism. Oh sure, he was concerned about the Russian Nuke thing too, but not as concerned as he was about finding racism everywhere he looked. He read scads of books on the subject, and he would often steer the conversation into "That waitress is racist because she served me last."

It got to where we would just change the subject. Occasionally we would try to push back gently on his narrative, for example, by pointing out occasions when he wasn't served last, but he just regarded such examples as "flukes" and not demonstrative of the usual racism that affected his life.

Meanwhile, those Russian nukes were still pointed at us.

Same thing with the Civil War. Slavery is long gone, but that "Cabal" is still pointed at us.

We call it the "Establishment" nowadays, and it's the problem that is still lingering for over 150 years.

113 posted on 05/18/2018 2:47:58 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp; BroJoeK
I am also more concerned with what affects me in the here and now and from whence it came. The issue of slavery may be very dear to some, but me and mine had nothing to do with it either in the past or in the present, and I am far more concerned about this out of control "cabal" running our Capitol city now.

Of course you think that. But of course, the people concerned -- Frederick Douglass, Sojourner Truth -- didn't think so. They actively encouraged African-Americans to fight. They weren't trying to give out or withhold brownie points for moral purity. They were out for freedom and willing to take support wherever it came from.

You could draw a parallel to the Second World War. Americans fought in the war or supported the war for different reasons. But would you really opt out or condemn or subvert the war effort because some of us weren't entirely pure in our motivation by 21st century standards?

My observation is that all the upheaval had nothing to do with what was in the best interest of black people, and any subsequent concern was an afterthought, and I suspect entirely based on political advantage.

That is how we get people saying stuff like "Once some people were slaves. Now everyone is a slave. Lincoln made us all slaves." They don't take slavery seriously, so they think everything they don't like is like slavery or worse than slavery.

First of all, if you cared about slavery, you'd know that it involved more than just having to pay taxes. Secondly, if we are less free now than we once were (and a lot depends on how you define "we"), the settling of the frontier and the introduction of the income tax in the Progressive Era (and withholding during the FDR years) has more to do it than the Civil War. Third, wouldn't be any freer if the Confederates had won. They were a government like any other (if not worse than many) and they had an interest in maintaining and increasing their power over their subjects.

My primary concern at that time was the possibility of being incinerated by Soviet Nuclear ICBMs (for Obvious reasons growing up next to a US Military base) and my secondary concerns were things like Taxes and the effort of government to undermine civil society through abortion, the normalization of homosexuality, and assaults against the culture such as banning prayer in schools and such.

The Soviet threat and gay marriage? Were you in high school for twenty years or something?

P.S. Give my regards to your imaginary Black friend.

118 posted on 05/21/2018 2:28:00 PM PDT by x
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