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To: gandalftb

By asking to join the Union, the member states gave up their sovereignty. Take a look at the Virginia Plan of 1787. That plan was the result of the constitutional convention held by every one of the original 13 member states:

Uhhh no. Patently false. The states were assured repeatedly in the federalist papers that they were not surrendering their sovereignty. They expressly reserved the right to secede when they ratified the Constitution.


VA willingly gave up its sovereignty. VA agreed that any VA act that disagreed with the national legislature could be negated by the national legislature. Obviously, secession would fall into disagreement and not allowed except by the national legislature.

That only pertained to those powers DELEGATED by Virginia to the federal government so long as it chose to remain in. Otherwise they would hardly have passed an express resolution at the time of the ratification of the constitution reserving the right to unilateral secession.


452 posted on 04/03/2018 5:34:01 PM PDT by FLT-bird
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To: FLT-bird; Bonemaker; 2nd Amendment; Pelham; wardaddy; Uncle Sham; Bull Snipe

The right of secession has been argued since the Declaration of Independence. Agreed, secession should be allowed, but extremely limited.

The key issue in the right to secession is not separating oneself from a government that prevents the “self-determination” of “peoples,” but separating oneself from a government that fails in its purpose: the protection of individual rights.

See Jefferson Davis, “Farewell Address to the Senate”:

http://www.constitutionreader.com/reader.engz?doc=constitution&chapter=OEBPS/Text/ch98.xhtml

What individual rights did Davis say were being taken away?

https://www.nps.gov/bost/the-anti-secessionist-jefferson-davis.htm

“The Constitution recognizes the property in many forms, and imposes obligations in connection with that recognition.” Jefferson Davis states “It was not the right of any other person, despite political party, to take away someone’s personal property.”

Davis’ key argument for secession was the potential loss of the right to own slaves, not the issue of states’ rights or tariffs or sovereignty.

The mention of secession in the Federalist Papers is in Madison’s No. 58 which says:

“the baneful practice of secessions; a practice subversive of all the principles of order and regular government; a practice which leads more directly to public convulsions, and the ruin of popular governments, than any other which has yet been displayed among us.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed58.asp

The bottom line is that the issue was decided when the CSA lost and it is time for all to realize that fact and stop trying to justify a lost cause.


494 posted on 04/04/2018 4:07:24 PM PDT by gandalftb
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