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To: forgotten man

CPR is given to those who have no pulse, not breathing. If you have no pulse and not breathing then you are basically dead. Dead people basically do not feel pain.

As it turns out, in order to survive VF, VT, you need high quality CPR immediately and defibrillation very soon after. Even then chances of survival are small but still there is a chance. You have 4 minutes after arrest before permanent brain damage.

Patients that are asystole have no shockable rhythm, hence an AED will not advise a shock but to continue compressions. Where it is pointless and in my opinion abuse of a corpse is when either there are conditions inconsistent with life or if the patient has been involved in a unwitnessed arrest.

If EMS gets involved, they by protocol, have to do compressions if the family asks or if someone has already started CPR before they get on scene. In order to discontinue medics in the field need permission from the medical command doctor at a receiving hospital or if again there are conditions inconsistent with life. But in that case they still must report to medical command and depending on the situation ask the 911 dispatching authority to dispatch the coroner.

It just so happens that I responded to (an EMS Assist) as a firefighter last weekend, the family wanted us to do CPR, the patient was in rigor which is a sign inconsistent with life, so no CPR. Still, stress galore.

I have had the opportunity to perform CPR roughly a dozen times on patients that could benefit from it. (I’m a volley Firefighter/EMT). I have had patients twice return to a viable rhythm, one was a drowning the patient that lived for 2 weeks but was in a coma, the other (lightning strike) lasted 12 hours. We did compressions for about 2 hours on that one, at the scene, in the truck and in the ER. Still in both cases the family was able to say goodbye.

Having said all that it is up to the individual and/or family regarding a DNR. If I had a week to live then I don’t want to put anyone trough the stress of having to do CPR. It is, even for healthcare workers, very stressful. CPR BTW, performed on a human being is not the same as CPR on a practice dummy.


28 posted on 03/28/2018 3:50:06 PM PDT by fatboy
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To: fatboy

How dare you opine that someone with no heartbeat and respiration is basically dead and therefore does not feel pain. With all due respect your statement is dangerous and backed by minimal understanding of human physiology. I can point to thousands of patients whom I have resuscitated over my career who felt great pain and fear in advanced cardiac life support. I will gladly put this up against your dozen resuscitations. May I remind you of the great advice that it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.


35 posted on 03/28/2018 4:11:03 PM PDT by gas_dr (Trial lawyers AND POLITICIANS are Endangering Every Patient in America)
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To: fatboy

Thank you for what you do. I had CPR from an EMT for about 20 minutes some five years ago. You win a few, lose a few. It worked out well for me.


98 posted on 03/28/2018 8:14:15 PM PDT by Colorado Doug (Now I know how the Indians felt to be sold out for a few beads and trinkets)
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