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To: metmom
Here's the thing.

On bowing: the Biblical context often affirms "bowing," as a form of respect, illustrated by dozens and dozens of OT instances in which godly people bowed to people, places, and things, yet without being guilty of idolatry. What is condemned is idolatry, not merely "bowing".

Similarly, on "Father": the Biblical context often affirms calling human men "fathers" as a form of respect, illustrated by dozens of NT instances in which godly people (like Apostle Paul and the msrtyr Stephen) called men "father" without being guilty of disobeying Christ. What is condemned is settning up a rival to God's authority, not rightful respect to fathers, masters and teachers.

But do you want to understand? it seems not, because you've never engaged with these points even though this discussion has been going on for years.

So excuse me, right now I have something else to do.

655 posted on 02/01/2018 11:05:06 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("You have eyes: don't you see? You have ears: don't you hear? Don't you even remember?" -Mark 8:18)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

It says *not bow down* and *call no man farther*.

Now if Catholics wish to weasel out of obeying the clear concise command of God, then they will continue to rationalize sin of which your arguments are a wonderful example.


657 posted on 02/01/2018 11:59:24 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
What is condemned is idolatry, not merely "bowing".

Look, you get two for one! Bowing to an idol.

661 posted on 02/01/2018 1:47:54 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Q is Baron Trump, time-traveling back from the future, to help his dad fight the deep state.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Don’t misrepresent either me or Scripture.

I never said that merely bowing was forbidden, and neither did God.

The 2nd commandment says to not make a graven image and bow before that.

All those pictures of people bowing before statues of Mary is EXACTLY what is happening that god forbade, it’s the perfect example of people breaking that commandment.


669 posted on 02/01/2018 2:07:27 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; metmom
On bowing: the Biblical context often affirms "bowing," as a form of respect, illustrated by dozens and dozens of OT instances in which godly people bowed to people, places, and things, yet without being guilty of idolatry. What is condemned is idolatry, not merely "bowing".

Peter in the New Testament forbid it.

25When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. 26But Peter raised him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am just a man.” Acts 10:25 NASB

Roman Catholicism today allows it and encourages it:

Image result for KISS THE pope ring

Something's gotten lost along the way.

671 posted on 02/01/2018 2:41:45 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o; metmom
Similarly, on "Father": the Biblical context often affirms calling human men "fathers" as a form of respect, illustrated by dozens of NT instances in which godly people (like Apostle Paul and the msrtyr Stephen) called men "father" without being guilty of disobeying Christ.

Yes...and context helps us understand how they were used.

We have no record of Stephen appealing to anyone for forgiveness...other than asking Christ to forgive the ones who were stoning him.

What is condemned is settning up a rival to God's authority, not rightful respect to fathers, masters and teachers.

You mean like what has been ascribed to Mary by Roman Catholicism??

But see what you did there....? I doubt it though.

You're conflating fathers, as our biological fathers, with masters and teachers....so let's take that usage off the table as it is not what Christ was talking about.

For context let's review the passage in question.

1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. 4“They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5“But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6“They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. 8“But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9“Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10“Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. 11“But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12“Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

Kinda sounds a lot like how Roman Catholicism has set up their priests, cardinals, archbishops, pope, what with all of the pomp and circumstance and garments and other accoutrements we see on display in Roman Catholic churches.

Context, mrs.d...will help you understand how the term is used and how it is not to be used.

Roman Catholicism is using it incorrectly.

675 posted on 02/01/2018 2:59:21 PM PST by ealgeone
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