Senate delays tax bill vote as setback hits in final hours

CNBC ^ | November 30th, 20-17 | Jacob Pramuk

[Okeydoker]

Personally i wont mind if it is killed because I believe that it is a permanent giant tax cut for gop establishment globalist corporate donors at the expense of middle class two earner trump voters.

[SoFloFreeper]

How about a TRIGGER that automatically CUTS SPENDING if "goals" aren't met?!

[Okeydoker]

Funny how all these gop establishment dirtbags had no problem with debt and deficit when obama and bush blew up budgets. Its only because its trump that the hypocrites want to play this game.

[Psalm 73]

"...Corker, a so-called .... Republican..."

There, fixed it.

[SkyPilot]

The Republicans will be back at starting 10:30 am EST.

They are drafting another screw job for us all right now.

Then they will jam this through.

And Trump will sign it.

To heck with all of them.

[mrsmith]

Your POV is fine with me, though we disagree.
https://twitter.com/RichardRubinDC and https://twitter.com/ScottElliotG are good tweeters to follow.

“There is a huge, behind the scenes fight in the Senate right now, with hundreds of billions at stake.
*Ted CRUZ* leading the resistance to CORKER insistence on more taxes & challenged him on the floor.
Fifty-one senators want to cut taxes,” CRUZ said. “ONE [Corker] is trying to raise taxes. That’s not right.”

The quitters (Flake and Corker) are messing up the Kabuki show, and not in a good way.

[IWONDR]

AMEN, SKY PILOT. I’M GLAD THERE IS SOMEONE ELSE OUT THERE LIKE YOU AND LEVIN WHO RECOGNIZES HOW BAD THESE PROPOSED BILLS ARE FOR TRUMP’S “DEPLORABLES.” WHY THE RUSH TO GET A BAD BILL PASSED?

It’s interesting to me that i haven’t heard one congress critter oppose this bill on the grounds of its evisceration of the middle class. where are the folks that we elected to represent us? oh, that’s right, we are only given lip service at re-election time.

the elimination of most of the itemized deductions should be a deal killer to all those of our duly elected to represent us who vote them into office, and not as thank you gifts to those corporations who donate the fattest envelopes to their re-election campaigns.

so just as the cost of obamacare was being shouldered by all the healthy young people who had to sign up or pay a fine, this tax bill is being paid for by the average middle class taxpayer for the benefit of big permanent tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. Touting this as a tax cut to all the middle class deplorables who elected Trump is the same as obama promising that you would save $2500 on your insurance premiums and could keep your doctor. This isn’t a tax cut, but a tax increase for the average American.

the standard deduction is being not quite doubled, but then they are eliminating the individual personal exemptions for yourself, your spouse and your dependents. so they give with one hand but take away with the other. in addition, they are eliminating the extra deduction for those over 65 or blind.

if you take the standard deduction, you cannot then itemize; therefore, giving up the normal deductions for medical expenses, long term care insurance expenses, state and local taxes, property taxes [under the senate bill], mortgage interest deduction limits, student loan interest deductions, moving expenses, alimony, dependent care assistance accounts, casualty and theft losses, unreimbursed job expenses and tax preparation fees.

further details about this “wonderful” tax grab:

Exclusions and exemptions.
The measure would repeal personal and dependency exemptions (which is $4,050 per individual in 2017), exclusions for employee achievement awards, employer education assistance, qualified tuition programs, dependent care assistance, qualified moving reimbursements, and adoption assistance. Contribution to Coverdell education savings accounts would be barred, but funds in existing accounts could be rolled over to 529 plans.

Deductions.
Certain deductions from gross income as well as itemized deductions would be eliminated. Deductions from gross income set to be axed include the alimony deduction (for divorce or separation agreements entered into after Dec. 31, 2017, student loan interest (although the Senate version would retain this deduction), interest on U.S. savings bonds redeemed for higher education, the moving expense deduction, the deduction for contributions to Archer medical savings accounts, out-of-pocket educator expenses, and expenses of performing artists and certain government officials.

Itemized deductions on the chopping block include the medical expense deduction, state and local income or sales taxes, the casualty and theft loss deduction (except for casualty losses in federally-declared disaster areas), and miscellaneous itemized deductions for tax return preparation and unreimbursed employee business expenses.

Tax credits.
The bill would repeal the credit for the elderly and permanently disabled, the credit for mortgage certificates, and the credit for plug-in electric vehicles. The bill would eliminate the lifetime learning credit by consolidating it into the American opportunity credit. The credit would be available for five years of higher education (instead of four years), but the amount in the fifth year would half the usual maximum (including the amount eligible for the 40 percent refundable portion of the credit).

Now look at its impact on the economic strata of taxpayers to see who benefits the most:

“...the highest-income taxpayers (0.1 percent of the population, or those with incomes over $3.7 million in 2016 dollars) would experience an average tax cut of nearly $1.1 million, over 14 percent of after-tax income. Households in the middle fifth of the income distribution would receive an average tax cut of $ 1,010, or 1.8 percent of after-tax income, while the poorest fifth of households would see their taxes go down an average of $110, or 0.8 percent of their after-tax income.”

[SkyPilot]

Missed President Trump running on raising taxes on TAXPAYERS.

"We will massively cut taxes for the middle class, the forgotten people, the forgotten men and women of this country, who built our country....Tax relief will be concentrated on the working and middle class taxpayer. They will receive the biggest benefit and it won't even be close."**

Donald Trump, Scranton PA, Oct 2016

_{**Except for you middle class in NY, NJ, CA, IL, CT, WA, MA, and other states....and except for you middle class who deduct medical expenses, and except for large families who rely on the Personal Exemption, and except for you young people who deduct student loan interest, and except for you middle class who deduct mortgage interest, and except for you men who have to pay alimony, and except for you school teachers who deduct paying for school supplies out of your own pocket, and except for graduate students, and except for college students who get tuition benefits from parental employment, and...}

[IWONDR]

“Funny how all these gop establishment dirtbags had no problem with debt and deficit when obama and bush blew up budgets.”

EXACTLY!

[Mariner]

Not to worry.

They still have to get the POS through the House.

[Kickass Conservative]

>>>deficit-wary Sen. Bob Corker’s<<<

I guess old Bob just woke up from his eight year Coma, right?

Bobby goes to sleep and the National Debt is a mere TEN TRILLLION DOLLARS. He wakes up eight years later and the National Debt is TWENTY TRILLION DOLLARS.

No problem, eh Bobby boy? After all, you were sleeping.

[RKBA Democrat]

Well it could be said that politics is a scam and we’re suckers for playing.

Just sayin’. (For about the 900th time)

[Kickass Conservative]

>>>They still have to get the POS through the House<<<

I believe it goes to Conference if the Senate approves it.

The House already Voted for their version if I’m not mistaken. Now it’s Spock Mind Meld time.

[RKBA Democrat]

We need better tax planning and accountants. In the end the politicians are going to do what they want regardless of what any of us think about it.

Politics is a scam and we’re suckers for playing.

[RKBA Democrat]

Lulz. I suspect that the house will accept whatever the senate passes without sending it to conference. When the dance has been decided, all that’s left is choreography.

Politics is a scam and we’re suckers for playing.

[sphinx]

The gov’t should be able to cut about 30% easily

If we're willing to make the necessary cuts, yes. But:

First we pay for mandatory spending, i.e. the entitlements. By law, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid come off the top. Add debt service, and there is still enough left over to pay for about half of current defense spending. Beyond that, we borrow.

So: to meet your target, we can pay for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and debt service. Then we cut defense by about half and zero everything else. Or, we can reform entitlements. Republicans have taken a run at this from time to time, but with Trump declaring that entitlements are off limits, another attempt is probably going to have to wait until The Donald is out of the White House.

If you think this is possible, let me know how you plan to get 60 votes in the Senate to significantly cut outyear spending in Social Security and Medicare. Which is what has to be done. Since we aren't going to cut people's current benefits, the goal has to be some formula that reduces the rate of growth going forward. This can be done, but good luck finding the votes.

[prov1813man]

why is no one saying what is always true. Tax RATE reduction does not reduce the amount of taxes collected. In the economic boom that follows tax revenue to the government always increases WHILE taxpayers pay a smaller percentage of their increased income in taxes.

Public HS graduate, 1966 and even i know this. Tax cuts always work for workers. The problem is the more of our money we keep the less we need the government. Which means less control for those who would control us.

Simple.

[ConservativeMind]

I pay 25% less tax with this, so are you trying to screw me over?

[Yogafist]

While overlooking those in tax brackets below 35%.

[RoseofTexas]

I’m so shocked..NOT!!