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To: Garth Tater; dsc; Vigilanteman; poinq; old-ager; Vision Thing; 9YearLurker; b4me; All

Background: My mother was a teacher, my late husband was a teacher; I switched from a Spanish to a Science major when Sputnick flew; I was a voracious reader. I came to the conclusion that for me the only necessary classes were Science, Language, and the Arts. All else was reading and thinking. My husband and I were college graduates. Our 2 sons are not. Number 1 son did 3 years of ROTC and entered the Army at graduation. He left after his 4 years in 82nd Airborne. Worked but not very happy for a few years. I asked him what the problem was. He said, “I like to get up at 6 am and run 5 miles.” Well, I guess that explained it. He reenlisted and has now finished 20 years, currently in Special Forces. His father, he, and his son were all restless, can’t sit still types, like many people especially young men who are not well suited to routine sedentary work. My other son was dyslexic, dropped out and was doing nothing. I helped get him informally apprenticed to a young man (orphan) I had helped, and he became a good worker. He is now married, 2 children, and running his own construction business.

A significant problem with modern education and catch all solutions like “No Child Left Behind” or Common Core is the focus on “College Education.” At Harvard it was stated that the Common Core State Standards were intended to set a common high standard for student achievement all across the country. … The goal is to set standards at such a level that virtually all students who graduate high school will be both ready to do successful college work or to enter a 21st-century high skill/high knowledge career and be successful in that.” from: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2013/11/core-objectives/

Have these educated idiots forgotten that while 1/2 the population is above average and should be able to be successful in college or at some detailed technical trade, the other half of the population is below average and while able to work successfully at something, needs to be specifically helped to learn working skills. Thus for half the population the stated goals of Common Core are impossible to ever reach. Thus large numbers of our students are neglected for those who can reasonably be expected to measure up to the “common high standard for student achievement.” Schools used to have decent programs of technical and practical education. Sixty years ago the courses in sewing, cooking, and home nursing have proved to be some of the most useful for my entire life. I taught my sons cooking, light sewing, and health maintenance which they have used successfully. They also helped me with carpentry, brick laying, and electric line running. My father taught my brothers auto mechanics and light home construction.

One result of of the total failure and neglect of technical and trade education in our schools is that large chunks of population especially, for example, black people in our cities have left school totally unprepared to do needed non collegiate work. As a result, developers and contractors have been happy to hire undocumented labor coming in from Latin America, the Caribbean, and Africa. Now we have both urban blacks and small town and rural white people furious at the system which has so shamelessly neglected their legitimate needs with the elitist fallacy that all you need to succeed and have a successful society is a college education or education in a 21st-century high skill/high knowledge career.

When I got my BA in 1959 I discovered I could not advance in science without at least an MS or PhD, or get a white collar job until I had shorthand and faster typing. They never told me that in college, and this lack of useful information seems equally common today after almost 60 years. I recently spoke for 20 minutes with a successful restauranteer running for political office about vocational education for the restaurant field. I asked his opinion of our city’s culinary arts program. “Not very good.” When I asked him what was the most important thing these students needed to learn. He said, “to smile.” Ah, yes, service with a smile, how novel!


56 posted on 11/21/2017 1:50:46 AM PST by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin

Yeah, that’s a decent point, but more fundamental is that they teach reading, writing and basic math such that even below-average students who ought to be able to handle reading, writing, and basic math can’t.


57 posted on 11/21/2017 3:39:16 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: gleeaikin; 9YearLurker
You are BOTH right. Even though I went to college, earned and advnced degree and worked professionally both here and abroad, I find two of the most useful classes which I took were way back in junior high-- wood shop and metal shop.

The total deemphasis on industrial arts is one reason why so many people who work with their hands have been driven out of the middle class and replaced by illegal aliens. The greed of the elites in the industry and their political allies who refuse to enforce the law are another.

58 posted on 11/21/2017 5:21:43 AM PST by Vigilanteman (ObaMao: Fake America, Fake Messiah, Fake Black man. How many fakes can you fit into one Zer0?)
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To: gleeaikin

College is a business. The college industry misreads the stats that people with a college degree do better than those who do not have a college degree. They purposely don’t look into whether college degrees are causation or correlation with regard to success. In my experience, college acceptance has virtually the same correlation with success as college graduation. And college has very little if any causation for success. Actual, going through college gives you little in terms of knowledge that you can’t get anywhere else (internet, on the job, random observance). And the networking you do is easily done at your first job, or a city apartment complex, or a work out room.

As an employer I did not care what someones degree was in. I only cared which college they were accepted to. It was an IQ test. University of Chicago meant you were smarter than Michigan State. Programmers were the only position that I required a degree in the subject. (Obviously CFOs and lawyers need a specific degree.)

The new college student has to unlearn much of college. Gone are the days where you are taught. You need to learn to be successful. Gone are the days when you are supposed to do your own work. Collaboration is the key to success. Risking, getting something pretty close to right, invention and throwing out what you worked on to throw in with a colleague who has a better idea is part of work and scorned by colleges.

Your kids, especially with wives who help out, are probably great. Especially if they are industrious and have an industrious partner.


59 posted on 11/21/2017 9:45:25 AM PST by poinq
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