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To: DiogenesLamp

So, if the Federal Government has surrendered the Fort nicely, then there would have been no problem? I guess that is always the solution, give up to the ones threatening so there will be peace.

I like how you seem to know the mind of the Southern leaders, but pamphlets and news articles from that period show a bunch of fire breathers. From caning people in Congress, to other acts of violence, like shooting at the “Star of the West”, which could also be seen as the first shot of the war. Again, from the hand of the South.

As far as Congress, you are either ignorant of the facts, or willfully prevaricating.

The 1860 Congress was the first one that the North controlled, under Republicans. All the rest, 34th, 35th, etc., were controlled by the Democrats, the South particularly. More states were entering the Union free, because that was the right thing to do, and the South would lose its monopoly on power.


28 posted on 10/11/2017 8:52:49 AM PDT by wbarmy (I chose to be a sheepdog once I saw what happens to the sheep.)
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To: wbarmy

Gee 600,000 had to die to decide ownership of a pile of rock and brick in the Cooper River.


33 posted on 10/11/2017 9:01:57 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: wbarmy
So, if the Federal Government has surrendered the Fort nicely, then there would have been no problem? I guess that is always the solution, give up to the ones threatening so there will be peace.

The Fort was constructed for the purpose of defending Charleston Harbor from attack by the British or other Foreign government. When the South became independent, it was no longer the problem of Washington DC to protect Charleston, and so therefore they had no further purpose in being there. The Land belonged to South Carolina before the Union, and it should have reverted back to South Carolina when South Carolina left the Union.

All of Lincoln's cabinet but one told him that the Fort should be evacuated, and all of them recognized that continued occupation of it would cause a war. They told him it would cause a war.

Lincoln's cabinet also informed him that the fort was effectively useless, and if the Confederates allowed him to resupply the fort, it would become an embarrassment in six months when they had men there doing nothing of any value and they had to resupply it again.

I like how you seem to know the mind of the Southern leaders, but pamphlets and news articles from that period show a bunch of fire breathers.

Were they the leaders? I told you about Beauregard because I read the exchanges between him and Anderson and between him and his government, and between Anderson and Washington DC. What loud mouths with no power were saying are of no relevance because they weren't giving anyone orders.

From caning people in Congress,

Charles Sumner deserved it, or did you not read what he said? I suspect you didn't. I would have beaten him bloody myself had he said such a thing to me.

to other acts of violence, like shooting at the “Star of the West”,

Warning shots initially, shots closer to the ship when they didn't seem to heed the warning shots. No serious damage to the ship or crew.

which could also be seen as the first shot of the war.

Incorrect. The First shots of the war were when Union troops fired on Florida Militia who were coming to investigate the noises and lights they were seeing at Fort Pickens in Pensacola. (the Fort had been abandoned for some time, and they noticed activity there) Nobody was hit, but the Union troops shot at them first.

The 1860 Congress was the first one that the North controlled, under Republicans.

That was the year the trouble began in earnest. That was the year they realized they could not protect themselves any longer.

More states were entering the Union free, because that was the right thing to do, and the South would lose its monopoly on power.

They were entering the Union as "free" because of the North Eastern coalition financing a propaganda effort to encourage it, and the North Eastern coalition was financing this effort because it would give them greater power in congress if they could bring more states into their coalition.

Plantation slavery was actually impossible in the western territories, so it was never any threat that there would be any significant amount of slavery in those new states, but if they entered as a "slave" state, they would vote with the Southern coalition, and the North Eastern power block could not allow that to happen.

The debate about expansion of slavery was really a debate about who would control congress. Who controlled congress controlled the power and money of the United States.

It was always about power and control.

36 posted on 10/11/2017 9:18:34 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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