Posted on 09/21/2017 9:20:30 AM PDT by oh8eleven
Most of the interviewees talk in the lugubrious tones of the defeated. We all know the story ends badly. But when it’s over, we aren’t told why we lost. The music is more memorable than the pictures, and the pictures are more compelling than the narration. We are deluged by sights and sounds but not enlightened as to cause and effect.
The film casts the antiwar movement in a moderately favorable light. Are the protesters the real heroes here? What about the valiant US soldiers, 75 percent of whom were volunteers?
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
June 19, 1973 - The U.S. Congress passes the Case-Church Amendment which forbids any further U.S. military involvement in Southeast Asia, effective August 15, 1973. The veto-proof vote is 278-124 in the House and 64-26 in the Senate. The Amendment paves the way for North Vietnam to wage yet another invasion of the South, this time without fear of U.S. bombing.
December 13, 1974 - North Vietnam violates the Paris peace treaty and tests President Ford's resolve by attacking Phuoc Long Province in South Vietnam. President Ford responds with diplomatic protests but no military force in compliance with the Congressional ban on all U.S. military activity in Southeast Asia.
July 17, 1973 - Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger testifies before the Armed Forces Committee that 3500 bombing raids were launched into Cambodia to protect American troops by targeting NVA positions. The extent of Nixon's secret bombing campaign angers many in Congress and results in the first call for Nixon's impeachment.
April 21, 1975 - A bitter, tearful President Thieu resigns during a 90 minute rambling TV speech to the people of South Vietnam. Thieu reads from the letter sent by Nixon in 1972 pledging "severe retaliatory action" if South Vietnam was threatened. Thieu condemns the Paris Peace Accords, Henry Kissinger and the U.S. "The United States has not respected its promises. It is inhumane. It is untrustworthy. It is irresponsible." He is then ushered into exile in Taiwan, aided by the CIA.
You post like a communist, leftist, draft dodger. If you are not then you need to educate yourself a bit.
Nixon had a knockdown dragout effort in 71' to keep the draft going in Congress for another 2 years and won.
So much for campaign promises...
Did you see this thread?
The picture is Snickering Hound just after his reassignment surgery.
Yup, but the 'Secret Bombing' stopped before the Case-Church amendment went into effect.
I've seen sources that say that ARVN surrendered stockpiles of ammunition to North Vietnam and other that say there wasn't any.
The Vietnamese did use captured F-5's against the Chinese in 79' so there were enough spares apparently to keep them running at least for that long.
Thank you!
You bring up something that struck me watching that last night. I think some of that was US Army film, used for training or “propaganda.” I am a photographer and you can when when a shot is made under stressful conditions. There was no shake and the pictures were pretty damned sharp. It was shot from a tripod.
I have never been in combat, and I was a baby at the time these were made. But for the men wo were there: did you ever see a tripod in combat? I am taking a leap and suggesting you didn’t see a lot of that.
One other benefit for the North Vietnamese from Tet was that the Southern VC leadership was decimated. The Vietnamese Politburo put loyal North Vietnamese troops into surviving VC cadres to make sure they stayed in charge.
Actually winning would have been better for them but there was some 'heads I win, tails you lose' for the VC.
We did get some older guy who was writing a book and he was a nice old coot but we worried about him - it was no place for bystanders or tourists.
Finally, a cogent response. We waited long enough!
I've always found it fascinating that Congress didn't mind the enemy's full-time use of Laos and Cambodia as a supply conduit and staging area yet they got all pouty when we attacked them where they were.
Should've hanged 'em all.
I agree with that, that is when the left built their power. Talk about not letting a crisis go to waste, they didn’t.
I don’t know that Johnson was such a pariah- to conservatives of course and especially to Vietnam Veterans who knew the truth but he really wasn’t with the left. The left has been many years covering for him- to the point many younger people don’t know he had anything to do with Vietnam, they only know him as the “Champion of Civil Rights” which of course he was not that either. The left has been teaching for years that Vietnam was “Nixon’s War” and getting away with it.
Johnson family sure did get wealthy off of Vietnam, that is a fact.
The US sacrificed great amounts of blood and treasure trying to prevent the takeover by the communists. North Vietnam blatantly violated the Paris Peace Accords, but the US did not fulfill the promises it made to South Vietnam to protect them against these violations. The Democrats in Congress sought a political advantage by becoming the anti-war party after they were the ones (JFK and LBJ) who got us involved in the first place. And the Americans fighting the war, 75% of whom were volunteers like me, were demonized and castigated as killers and war criminals. It took the US military decades to regain its respect and standing in the society.
The South Vietnamese continued fighting after we left. They were slowly starved of resources and left adrift by the political leadership of this country. We won the war militarily and lost it politically. Korea was a draw, but Vietnam was deemed a loss, the first in our history. We have seen the same thing happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. The sacrifice of our troops is being squandered away again. At some point, it will become difficult to recruit people into the military. As Kerry (the traitor) said, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"
The US political leadership never supported the objective of victory. Unless your very survival is at stake, you have the luxury of limited war. The problem is that our men and women in uniform are sacrificed needlessly and the taxpayer picks up the tab for the costs. Eventually, nations go bankrupt being involved in endless wars that achieve nothing.
No - I missed it.
But upon review there wasn’t much in it that surprised me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Shivers
Johnson was ‘conservative’ Texas Shivercrat in the 40’s and 50’s. He won the 48’ Senate campaign supporting Taft/Hartley to curtail the power of the unions.
He was derided by democrats at the time as being too much in the pocket of Eisenhower when he was Majority Leader of the Senate.
When he became president, he became that ‘Great Society’ liberal that everyone is familiar with but Democrats didn’t trust him and Republicans loathed him.
It’s still amazing after all these years that Democrats haven’t made any effort to rehab his image although they’ll fight to the mat for his programs like Medicaid.
JFK, Clinton, and Obama are their heroes, with Johnson its ‘Who?’
I don't if you knew I went back after most troops pulled out.
Neither did the Czechs, Chinese, Poles, Laotians or Cambodians but they didn't get 60,000 Americans killed in a futile effort to stop it.
North Vietnam blatantly violated the Paris Peace Accords, but the US did not fulfill the promises it made to South Vietnam to protect them against these violations. The Democrats in Congress sought a political advantage by becoming the anti-war party after they were the ones (JFK and LBJ) who got us involved in the first place.
The Paris Peace Accords actually allowed the North Vietnamese and their allies to keep 200,000+ troops and support in South Vietnam. This worked about as well as expected. Both sides had violations of the Truce before the 75' invasion. There were enough pro-war democrats to allow Nixon to extend the draft for another 2 years in 71' although they were routed by the antiwar left in 72' and 74'.
The South Vietnamese continued fighting after we left. They were slowly starved of resources and left adrift by the political leadership of this country.
When we pulled out in 73', we left them all our equipment. They had the 4th largest air force in the world. They still got billions in aid to keep it running.
And in 75' they still collapsed.
Ultimately it was their war, 8000 miles from the US, not ours.
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