Posted on 09/19/2017 7:27:45 AM PDT by genghis
This idea to use the tax code as a method for getting businesses to replace illegals with legal workers is amazing! Trump could do an executive order and put this in place immediately.
It's even better than building a wall because a border wall doesn't do anything about the illegals who are already here. This article describes something that would cause millions of illegals thrown out of work to deport themselves. No ICE round-ups necessary. No need to wait for Congress!!!!
This would be OK if the e-verify system was free to employers, which it is not. It’s the responsibility of the federal Government to control immigration but it makes employers pay to help enforce the immigration laws. Once e-verify is free then employers should be held responsible for whom they employ but not before.
So make it a crime to drive uninsured
Just like it’s a crime if you don’t pay for MuslimMarxistCare
This could also be done via executive order.
It is impossible to be opposed to this EO if you are serious about illegal immigration.
You can be in favor of building the border wall, hiring more ICE agents, asset forfeiture, mandatory E-Verify, etc. But all of those policies require cooperation from Congress. Trump can do this EO NOW!
Some have raised the problem of identity theft as a way that illegals game the E-Verify check. Well if this EO is implemented, then the legal workers who will be logging in to E-Verify will discover that their identities have been stolen. Obviously, E-Verify should have an employee portal so that employees can check to see if someone is already using their SSN. In addition, the Social Security Administration should be flagging instances where the same SSN is being used by 2 or more employers simultaneously. If anything, this EO will cause a tremendous drop in identity theft as legal residents are forced to check in with E-Verify.
As for setting up an LLC to avoid paying wages, you have to understand employment laws in the states won’t permit that to occur. If someone is working day after day at a desk or factory, they must be categorized as an employee by someone.
The state wants to get its workers compensation taxes. The Feds want their FICA and income tax deductions coming out of paychecks.
If someone is truly an independent contractor under the law and sets up an LLC while being an illegal, then there’s not much to do. However, if an employer encourages an employee to be categorized as an independent contractor, when he’s not, then he’s exposing himself to huge lawsuits, fines, and penalties that could be initiated by a disgruntled employee hiring a labor attorney.
This is hardly the ultimate wall.
Unlike a real wall this be wiped off the books with just a stroke of the pen
If a fine is associated with renting to them and employing - THAT alone will yank the rug out from under the whole ‘go to America for free stuff’ idea
And don’t forget that a border wall doesn’t do anything to force the deportation of illegals already residing in the country.
This EO would force the parents of the “Dreamers” to exit the US after they lose their jobs. The Dreamers go to Mexico with Mom and Dad, unless some legal relative wants to take care of them.
Self deportation is such a clean solution. This EO is the best idea I’ve yet seen to make it happen.
What I see is enforcement is gearing up in stages, which it has to do because at this point most illegals are entitled to a hearing so we have to gear up for that. Those being deported now have been detained under circumstances that allow immediate deportation or have already had their hearing and under court ordered deportation but have been allowed to stay.
The next stage is to clear out the clogged up immigration courts so more illegals can be detained, have their hearing and be deported. That is also being done now but the media is not reporting it. Illegals are deliberately clogging the immigration courts and have been for years as a way to be allowed to stay- they thought they just had to drag their feet long enough and we would give in and make them citizens. The government is building more detention centers- with immigration courts right in the centers and hiring new judges to speed up the process. When that is geared up far fewer will request a hearing because they know that won’t allow them to stay and if they agree to waive hearing they can apply to come back legally. If they have to be forcibly deported through the whole process they are not allowed to ever come back legally, even to visit.
Now we come to going after businesses, that has never been done the right way. Many businesses were allowed to hire illegals without consequence, and others were raided time after time. I have my ideas that in the past that was used for political purposes but no proof of that. The thing is if you are going after say a huge chicken processing plant that hires several hundred illegals or more on a regular basis- they are going to have big gun attorneys to fight a long drawn out case against the charges. The big raids that have happened in the past have taken a long time to gather evidence to even go after the business in court. That is why often when a business is raided they don’t even go after the business itself. Now if you are being fair you are not going after one, you are going after all- so the court battles would be epic with the chance that some would be lost due to liberal judges not following the law and the laws would then be weakened. So if I was in charge I would do all the other steps, deport those already deportable, secure the border, begin to strictly enforce immigration laws. I see this is happening though the media is not reporting it. At that point it is already harder for ABC Chicken and other businesses to continue to hire illegals. Go after them about the hiring process, if they don’t comply fine them. Then when the process of hiring illegals is already weakened begin to go after the companies that have them working. There would not be so many- most would see the writing on the wall and get into compliance on their own and at that point it would be easier to prosecute those that are being stubborn.
I don’t know if this makes sense to you but parts of the process of getting rid of illegals is going to be far more difficult than others. Protections that have been put in place over many years will have to be broken piece by piece or the process will become so contentious it won’t get anywhere. We need to do the basics and then tackle the hard stuff. All of these protections and delays that have been put in place is why politicians and those that support illegal immigration have been saying for years that it would be impossible to deport all the illegals, secure the border, and go after businesses that hire them. The roadblocks have been carefully put in place over many years. We can do this, we can succeed but we have to take down the roadblocks along the way, we cannot just go and do it like we could have and did years ago. I would love to see all the illegals rounded up, sent back and those that hired them face serious consequences tomorrow but if that was even started in the current climate it would be stopped before it could get anywhere.
At this point this is a war against illegal immigration, we have to fight each battle along the way. We cannot simply full force attack all at once or we will lose the war.
Well then have Congress pass legislation to enshrine the EO into law, and require more than a stoke of the pen to reverse it.
A wall isn’t effective if a future Democrat President axes the ICE budget and doesn’t repair the wall.
You could always moan and complain that something isn’t full-proof. But that’s no reason to oppose this EO.
Isn’t e-verify still the law?
No. The wall is permanent. An EO can be eliminated by the next president!
I wonder the same thing. Some sub-contractors have been caught using illegal workers even in areas that are supposed to be secure- like military facilities. There has to be a loophole of some sort that needs to be plugged.
Who is opposing it? Not me.
I’m saying this bill, not matter how you dress it up can be undone with simply parliamentary tricks.
The temporary wire fences that are being installed right now can be undone with wire cutters or a torch.
It’s a wall that has the longest staying power.
We need a wall/secure barrier because there are many that will need to be forcibly deported, and they will simply come right back if the border is not secured. This has been happening for many years. Going after employers is not easy, it takes months to build a case because the worst violators have big gun attorneys to fight every step of the way. The public will not allow going after landlords, and others that assist. Forget going after hospitals and schools, that will not happen. The public at this point is not going to allow anything that they see as “oh my that is mean” so it has to be done other ways.
I wish we could just round them up, deport them all and go after employers and all that have helped them but it just isn’t possible at this point. We have to fight battles one piece at a time to win this war.
This would be a very bad idea. We need those inexpensive labourers. Can you imagine the drag on the economy if business owners had to pay their workers the going American wage scale?
And it requires no special funding, especially if there are not government unemployment (etc) handouts.
Illegals keep the wages down on the bottom rung jobs. Without illegals those jobs have to be done, wages will have to be raised. At this point it pays more to be on social services than those jobs pay. That is why so many illegals get on the programs. They aren’t making enough to live on those wages either. When 24 men rent a house they can make plenty of money to live and send back to their country. When one decides to get a woman, raise children then they find it is not enough money.
It is not like the dims say that lettuce will cost $10 a head and all the scare stories, but wages will go up without illegals competing for the jobs. A huge chicken processing plant was raided several years ago and 300 illegals taken out by ICE. The owners said no one else would do those jobs. The truth is locals lined up for the jobs- they complained later they had to raise wages by $1 an hour to hire locals.
It is not the cost of the wages as much as all the other payroll costs, and benefits that make it so lucrative to hire illegals. We need to lighten up on business regulations and taxes and they can pay more wages.
When wages are higher than social services (which some parts of that need to be cut back as well) then make it harder to get on the dole. Social services is not for able bodied people that would rather hang out all day, or for people waiting for a better job.
Yes you are right the laws with teeth protect the illegals at every turn. That is why this is a war that will be fought one piece, one battle at a time.
There are immigration laws against hiring or assisting illegals in any way. The truth is there have been Civil Rights laws passed and court rulings that if you cannot prove the person is an illegal before you even start to not assist or hire them then you are guilty of discrimination.
I have a friend that got out of the landlord business because of that. If a hispanic that speaks no English wants to rent from you and you don’t rent to them and say the reason is you thought they were an illegal; then you have discriminated against them because of race according to the law. The kicker is if immigration laws are strictly enforced then you could be in trouble if you do rent to them.
Like it or not the US tax payers have been indirectly subsidizing businesses and farmers for years. Illegals work cheaper than US citizens get free medical, subsidized housing and even welfare because they are not officially working.
Your number two would likely work. The large and medium businesses would be able to hire lawyers to fight the process for years though so it would not be as fast as you think. I do think we will see employers prosecuted for hiring, but I think all the ducks have to be in a row. One reason the government quit going after businesses- before O even was president is because it is a long drawn out court battle and it takes a while to gather evidence to prove the case. If cases are lost due to liberal judges it weakens the laws.
The truth is there are no easy answers and it will be small battles to progress along the way. Enforcement has to start small (which it has) and build and build. The open borders politicians and lawyers have spent years tying the hands of the process and it will have to be undone little by little.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.