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To: DiogenesLamp
You haven't made a point. You have regurgitated the common arguments of Dr Conspiracy and his collection of loons.

Speaking of a collection of loons, here you are again.

You have offered no primary sources but Madison, and you have either ignored or were ignorant of his subsequent actions as President which refute the claims he made in helping his ally get seated in the Congress.

Actually I've offered three: Madison, Rawle, and Kent. And I've quoted from all three. You, in turn, have claimed Rawle was lying, Madison was faking it, and Kent was apparently part of the conspiracy.

Other primary sources such as Benjamin Franklin, John Marshall, James Wilson, William Lewis or Bushrod Washington, you also either ignore, or are in fact ignorant of their positions on the issue.

Assuming you could come up with a quote from them, all you are doing is making my point for me. There was more than one definition of natural-born citizen at the time the Constitution was written. You claim that the term is self-explanatory is nonsense.

149 posted on 08/23/2017 11:05:51 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
Actually I've offered three: Madison, Rawle, and Kent. And I've quoted from all three.

You really don't bother reading that to which you are replying, do you? Rawle and Kent weren't delegates or members of any ratifying convention. They have no first hand knowledge of the issue.

Madison does, but he has contradicted himself on this issue, and his actions as President speak more loudly than his words as a congressman.

Assuming you could come up with a quote from them, all you are doing is making my point for me. There was more than one definition of natural-born citizen at the time the Constitution was written.

Even if some people didn't gather by the fact they changed the word from "Subject" to "Citizen" that there was a new relationship between the government and the individual, what mattered is what was the predominant position of the Constitutional Delegates in Philadelphia, and the positions of the ratifying legislatures and conventions in the states.

I can present quite a lot of proof that the Constitutional Delegates and the Ratifying legislatures and conventions took a lot more of their positions regarding how the government was to be structured from Vattel, than they did from Blackstone.

Blackstone was an authority on common law and English Statutes. Vattel was the authority on International law, of which the nature of "citizenship" is a primary part.

You claim that the term is self-explanatory is nonsense.

Not at all. In 1776, and even in 1787, there were only two nations in the world that used the word "Citizen"; Switzerland, which had by that time been a Republic for 400 years, and the US, which had just begun to be a Republic. All other Nations in the world used their own language's version of the word "Subject."

It is not an accident that we tossed the word "Subject". The fact that we did so is a clear statement as to intent.

151 posted on 08/23/2017 11:21:27 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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