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To: mlo

Natural born is not the same in all cases as a citizen born in the country.

The 14th Amendment is very clear on this.

You have non citizen parents, you are under the jurisdiction of their country, even if you are born on the White House steps.

Vattel says both parents have to be citizens, and their offspring is a natural born citizen. There were at two copies of Vattel(1758) at the Constitutional Convention in 1787 (via Franklin and Washington).

Obama,Cruz,Haley,Jindal—not eligible to be President.

Eight years of Obama taught us to take the Constitution literally.


50 posted on 07/17/2017 5:30:31 PM PDT by exit82 (The opposition has already been Trumped!)
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To: exit82

He was all over the threads when this was hashed out years ago, always irrationally on the wrong side. You may remember; I do.


67 posted on 07/17/2017 6:08:24 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Half the truth is often a great lie. B. Franklin)
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To: exit82
"The 14th Amendment is very clear on this."

"You have non citizen parents, you are under the jurisdiction of their country, even if you are born on the White House steps."

I don't know how you can say the 14th amendment is clear on that when it doesn't say that, or mean that, at all. What it does say is, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside...".

Note there are only two options. Born, or naturalized. That's because those are the only two ways people become citizens. Requiring a "natural born citizen" simply disqualifies the other option, naturalized citizens.

And no, "under the jurisdiction" doesn't mean anything about two citizen parents. It means people who are subject to the law, the obvious meaning of "jurisdiction". So it creates exceptions for diplomats and invading soldiers, who are aren't subject to domestic law.

It's important to realize that the 14th amendment didn't create these rules. It only codified in the constitution what was already done. These terms all had pre-existing meaning. Birthers have just substituted their own meaning for the words.

"Vattel says both parents have to be citizens..."

Vattel not only has no bearing, but his quotes are taken out of context. He was simply observing the practices in various countries and when he wrote that passage he described what certain European countries did. But he immediately followed it by noting that some countries were different, including...Britain! Since the US practice is simply an extension of British practice, as the Supreme Court has already noted, even Vattel is no support for Birther wackiness.

"Obama,Cruz,Haley,Jindal—not eligible to be President."

Every one of them is perfectly eligible.

"Eight years of Obama taught us to take the Constitution literally."

The constitution does not say anything about two citizen parents. You aren't taking it literally, you are reading something into it that isn't there.

What eight years of Obama did is drive the birthers nuts.

87 posted on 07/17/2017 9:54:09 PM PDT by mlo
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