I can't agree with that high a threshold.
notice that 95% of the population fall between 70 and 130. to me 95IQ does not mean unable to garner a living wage. Even at IQ85 there are only 16% of the population falls below this level.
Posted on 07/14/2017 5:31:02 AM PDT by from occupied ga
Same applies to smokers, drinkers, the morbidly obese and people who do things like drive without their seat belt or bike without helmets.
Good point; however, the discussion here is about opioids
“Clearly also written by someone without any knowledge of addictions.”
I have knowledge of addictions, but I largely agree when it comes to repeat people.
In my area, there is a detox for alcoholics, in operation since the 1950s.
They do NOT allow multiple times. There is a lifetime maximum.
The idea at that detox, and should be fror EMTs with Narcan, save the effort for somebody likely to benefit from it.
I think it’s because they think they are sure to be found and given Narcan.
These people are those to whom HRC referred to as deplorables. Of course, she really meant middle class whites of all IQ levels, but was appealing to her racial identity base to cast aspersions on everyone in Trump's camp.
As you say, while an IQ of 100 is average, it was only a few generation ago that those around 90+- could still fit within societal expectations as being self sufficient working adults. Go back further, say 150 years ago, and labor intensive agricultural (ie 90% of the population lived on farms) requirements had places for people with even 80-90.
That's why I used 95 as a current threshold - people @ that level who work hard can still lead productive lives, but they won't really ever be able to enjoy any kind of financial independence or economic security.
Perhaps the key issue is that no one gets to choose their parents; whether one is intelligent or dull is really just dumb luck. And at the rate technological complexity is increasing, what happens when the average of 100 becomes threatened? Plus, does it stop there? No way, it keeps moving up the scale, which is why robotics and AI will eventually threaten to displace the professional classes.
Which brings us back to the vices ie idle fingers are the devil's workshop. Everyone seems to be noticing a large increase in homelessness. No, it's not just because Trump is president - it's really happening. Ditto for alcoholism, drug addiction and substance abuse. And the reason of course is that there aren't any suitable roles or places in society for these people.
It is, however, the role & responsibility for people who understand these issues to not be caught up in dogmatic arguments, but look at it logically from a policy perspective. How we deal with it is just one of the many burdens we share in being responsible managers.
I've heard it put this way...
You and I have lots to worry about in a day: Getting the kids to school, meeting that deadline, getting new tires for the car, checking on mom, remembering to send the mortgage payment, and a thousand other concerns.
The addict only has one problem in life: Where to get that next fix.
I heard a story about 4 months ago of a policeman (Ohio I think) that got some jacked up powder on his shirt. He touched it later in the day. The dude coded.
Some of the stuff going around is absolutely crazy.
“Thus isn’t about compassion. It’s about finite resources.”
Yes, and also about passing the buck. Our state governors got together recently an complained about the opioid problem. I translate that to begging the federal government for more money.
The federal government’s business is to try to keep the illegal drugs from coming into the country.
Each state has a government and a potload of money from its taxpayers and a bunch of “experts”. Each state has all that’s needed to fight the opioid war.
The statistics about AA are flawed. Depends how you count success. Pretty much every AA meeting has at least 50% where people have gotten sober and remained so.
“don’t think the taxpayer should be required to continually bail them out”
Agreed. Does anyone disagree with that?
Should a person living in Florida help pay to bail out an addict in Oregon? That person living in Florida might prefer to help with Florida’s problems.
Sad. Do you consider alcoholism an addiction? I do. It has decimated my family, taking down brilliant, successful people, and I can't understand it as I have zero desire to drink or do drugs or take prescription meds.
Families of alcoholics/addicts take a big hit too...living with sorrow, fear, fury...So hard to just live your life and ignore your loved ones who are essentially trying to kill themselves.
I can't agree with that high a threshold.
notice that 95% of the population fall between 70 and 130. to me 95IQ does not mean unable to garner a living wage. Even at IQ85 there are only 16% of the population falls below this level.
I haven’t heard of this. Can you point me to a source?
Wow - all these folks calling the writer names.
People take opiods for pain. The vast majority take them as prescribed and are careful. Some go beyond the limit and abuse them or become addicted.
I don’t believe that many responsible users of these drugs end up getting Narcan. What happens is the drug gets sold on the underground market, someone crushes it up and injects it - and injects too much, thus overdosing. I seriously doubt anyone takes a handful of tablets and OD’s - they would probably puke it up first.
So the writer says those who willfully overdose should be ignored - and that is his/her opinion - so calling names because you disagree puts you in the same boat as the ANTIFA people - so stop doing it.
Disagree all you want but logical thought and a coherent argument win more points than name calling.
And having had a child who was addicted to opiods I know both sides of the argument. He started with back pain, progressed to injecting heroin. The whole time he held a job and told tales about why he was sick, stole money from me and others. Eventually he met someone who convinced him that she was more important than opiods. Two rounds of rehab and he has been clean for 5 years now.
Given that, however if he had lost it all, injected while his kids were in the car and all the horror stories we read - I would have said three strikes you are out - no narcan, no nothing - you had your chances. Either figure it out or you will die. And I would have resolved myself to bury him.
The traditional role of unions - before they morphed into government representation - was to increase the (living) wages of unskilled production line workers. That (artificial) support of course has now ended, which makes it increasingly difficult for 90-95 to achieve any kind of economic security.
As for the 15%+-, that corresponds exactly with the old 80/20 rule: 20% of the salesmen earn 80% of the commissions. From a public policy & criminal justice perspective, 20% of the population create 80% of the problems.
What to do about these people, and their future roles, is one that needs to be solved politically. But, the first challenge is for people who understand the issues to first ID the primary casual factors (regardless of gradation or scale one may prefer).
This is part of Trump's MAGA plan. If we cannot create a vibrant, full spectrum economy that is inclusive of different skills & abilities, then we're going to see a continued increase in the kinds of dysfunctional behavior that leads to drug addiction, homelessness and other social ills. That costs us, the responsible taxpayers, our money no matter how you slice it.
This is a very personal issue for me and my family as my brother, 47, passed away late last month from what looks like an accidental painkiller overdose.
The cause of death is still pending, but he was a painkiller addict and had been abusing his body for many years. The medical examiner and narcotics detectives speculate that he took a dose of painkillers cut with a cheaper, but more potent ingredient called Fentanyl. These were purchased from a drug dealer.
The NYPD is seeing this with alarming regularity lately. It’s impacting people from all walks of life.
This has been particularly distressing to our 83-year-old mother, though it has impacted us all.
He had been very hostile to me for many years. He had stolen from me when he had the chance. He’d break into my PC to snoop at my emails, banking info, and business. He’d needle me constantly, trying to get a rise out of me. Over time, I cared less and less. He always had problems, though the drug abuse made them more pronounced.
There’s some guilt because I feel I could have done more, but as a practical matter, I don’t think anyone could have reached him. Certainly not me, as he was so negative & hostile towards me.
I raise this because while I don’t think medical help should be denied to OD’ing people, I think that there’s nothing we could have done institutionally to have prevented this. If those closest to him couldn’t reach him, I doubt a government program could reach him.
We should have clarity on the matter. The desire to “do something,” while sincere, isn’t a mandate to “do anything.”
At the end of my brother’s life, he loved his pills more than he loved anything or anyone else. It’s sad but it’s true. Given the problem with counterfeit pills laced with a very lethal substance, every time he got pills from the black market he was playing Russian roulette.
I think we should make treatment available and if someone can’t afford it, we should help them. The net positive of that policy is greater than the net negative. That being said, a lot of addicts are beyond help and we should be realistic in our expectations.
Fentanyl should only ever be administered by an anesthesiologist under controlled conditions. Couple of weeks ago a new fentanyl derivative hit the ga illegal drugs scene. Super powerful and super lethal. Narcan will not reverse it. 3people died and the news was PLASTERED all over every media channel coming right below the media’s seething vicious hatred of Trump. Guess what. Quite a few idiots took the pills anyway and several of them died too. If you’re that far gone there isn’t any point in trying to intervene
the big money with addicts is not the overdosing, but the infections they develop from repeated needle sticks...they don’t stick around in the hospital to get a few days of IV abx so ultimately, they develop worse infections that require 6 weeks of IV abx...and because most of them refuse to work or live normally, they have no place to go and we MUST keep they’re whinny little asses in the hospital for 6 weeks...
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