Anything is possible. I certainly would be wary of it becoming physical force.
But to say that the same thing will happen in Syria that happened in Iraq is a logical fallacy.
Posted on 04/09/2017 11:52:18 AM PDT by WilliamIII
If Trump keeps going in the direction he’s been going, it’s going to be sad to think back to what a great president he could have been. I hope he stops listening to his daughter and son in law and goes back to listening to the folks who got him the job.
Good grief, I have never been supportive for Cruz's presidential run, OK?
Question is. Does Trump remember MAGA? It is like he is forgetting us now that the swamp creatures are slapping him on the back.
We are all out here waiting for the Real Trump to reappear. The swamp body snatchers have gotten him.
So we can’t even get a vote on repealing Obamacare but Syria can have their government rebuilt at our expense?
So much for America First.
The best way to deal with the ME is to isolate it. Don't take in any of their refugees or even non-Muslim immigrants. Don't purchase their oil. Don't trade with them. Prohibit travel to them. Just let the region stew in its own feces.
Regime change is what Obama and Hillary did in Libya and tried to do in Eqypt. They didn’t quite get around to in Syria and along comes Trump to lend a hand.
Trump is doing some great things but this isn’t one of them — can you say neo con?
People here think deposing Bashar Assad will lead to ISIS or the other Islamist rebels will take total control of Syria? No, that’s probably not going to happen. The Syrian government apparatus is run by the Ba’ath party where someone in the party likely will succeed al-Assad.
Nikki Haley does not set foreign policy. She is destined to get her wings clipped. She is obnoxious.
Haven’t you heard? What Trump is really doing here is sending a message to Kim Jong-Un. Because nothing says, “Cease your nuclear ICBM program now!” like slightly damaging a Syrian airfield with $100 million of U.S. ordnance.
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
ISIS had an airbase? News to me
The undercurrent of what is going on here is that POTUS crossed Putin’s proxy Assad. Now our local Putinists are showing that their true allegiance and it is certainly not to the United States of America.
Yep and you can add Libya to that list.
I don’t think this is as much as western-friendly as it is about gas-pipeline friendly. Europe gets ~25% of its natural gas from Russia which gives them a lot of leverage on the west and NATO.
If Assad is replaced w the right player, the gas pipelines from Qatar and KSA will go thru and in 5 years Russian gas sales to Europe will become less significant.
Some see this as long-term economic containment of Russia. Russia sees this as vital to their national security, thus everyone’s willingness to full out fight a proxy war over it.
I’m not saying I agree with any of this, but this is the rationale I believe many in this and prior admins had.
The question becomes, for me at least, is the threat from Russia as significant as from ISIS? I don’t think it is, but I do think Russia needs to be contained. Putin is cagey, smart, and willing to do what it takes to maintain and grow power. Is containment of Russia worthy of risking American lives over? No, I don’t believe so. In that light, I don’t mind the cruise missile strike whatsoever, but I would be highly dubious of a legitimate troop deployment. Remember, you can’t negotiate a fair deal without leverage, and in Syria we had little to no leverage any longer. Obama squandered all of it and that is impacting not just the ME but in other places around the world.
A good question is - how possible it is for the United States to either confront or cut a deal with Russia in Syria (and Ukraine?) whilst also going forward with a major anti-ISIS / anti-terror campaign which I believe will be announced within weeks.
I think we will find out, because Trump appears to be headed this direction. I think it is possible to replace Assad without escalating into direct conflict, find a deal w Russia on the pipelines, and form a coalition of nations to really go after ISIS.
Why do we keep destroying the balance of power in the Middle East? Sadaam Hussein (a secular Sunni) ruling a majority Shia Iraq was a counterweight to Iran and a buffer between religious extremist Shia Iran and religious extremest Sunni Saudi Arabia. George W. Bush took him out (regime change). Now Iraq as an Iran allied Shia government and is partially overrun with ISIS extremists.
Libya had a dictator, Gaddafi, who had been cowed and was not a threat to the west. He had eliminated his nuclear program. The Obama administration and Europe sought regime change. Now Libya is unstable and full of terrorists.
The Carter administration facilitated the overthrow of the Shah of Iran by Khomeni and his Islamic fundamentalists. We’ve had trouble with Iran since then.
Obama helped the Muslim Brotherhood overthrow Mubarak in Egypt. Egypt became militant and unstable. The Egyptian military intervened to overthrow the MB and install el-Sisi in power. Egypt remains unstable.
Assad is the secular Shia leader of Syria. Shia Syria is a counterweight to Sunni Turkey and Saudi Arabia in the region. He also tolerated Christians in his country, unlike the religious extremist Muslim dictators in the region. Assad has been fighting the radical Islamic State and other radical Islamic groups. Yet the United States under the Obama, and now Trump, administrations has been supporting regime change.
Consider this. Syria is in a civil war with internal and outside forces trying to overthrow Assad as the legitimate ruler of Syria. Russia, for decades an ally of Syria is trying to support Assad. No different than the US supporting South Vietnam in the 1960’s or South Korea in the 1950’s. Consider also the charges Assad is brutalizing and attacking his own people during a civil war. Is this any different than Abraham Lincoln sending troops into the southern states from 1861-1865? Is what Assad is doing any different between the raping, pillaging, and destruction of Sherman’s march to the sea in Georgia which was a deliberate and successful campaign against the civilian population of the rebellious southern states.
Regime change, as foreign policy, has been a disaster for the United States since WWII. Our nation’s interventionist foreign policy has drained the US Treasury, killed over 100,000 US soldiers, killed millions of people in their own countries, triggered a refugee exodus that threatens to overtake Western Europe, and has not made the American people safe against outside terrorism.
We can hope President Trump is not embracing the failed Neo-con policies of the past 75 years. If our country continues to behave as an imperialist power, we will ultimately reap what we sow. One day the citizens of this country may find themselves ruled by a foreign nation or a dictator installed by a foreign nation. The neocons fail to recognize Europe is a paper tiger and even if some European allies wanted to come to our aid in a war against a Russia/Iran/China alliance, the European forces would be of no consequence. It is doubtful the US alone can defeat China a Russia in a conventional war and if a war against the US goes nuclear a victory in a nuclear exchange would still leave over 100 million Americans dead and the country’s infrastructure destroyed. A pyrrhic victory indeed or utter destruction.
Our founding fathers warned us against foreign entanglements. If only we would return to an isolationist foreign policy. After all, who bothers Iceland, Brazil, Switzerland, or New Zealand?
Anything is possible. I certainly would be wary of it becoming physical force.
But to say that the same thing will happen in Syria that happened in Iraq is a logical fallacy.
Haley sure is shooting her mouth off a lot.
No need to deny Haley. SOS is 2 levels above ambassador to UN when dealing with foreign policy. Besides the good cop bad cop is the best strategy ever!!!
“But to say that the same thing will happen in Syria that happened in Iraq is a logical fallacy.”
That wasn’t my point. My point was, Tillerson is our top diplomat. The first words of his mouth will be regime change through political means. He is surrounded by folks like Haley who have been screaming otherwise. To pay attention to one while completely ignoring the other is foolish.
If Trump hasn’t told her to cool it by this point, then she hasn’t gone off script.
Sorry, I don't support raping, pillaging or gassing civilian populations.
Regime change, as foreign policy, has been a disaster for the United States since WWII.... We can hope President Trump is not embracing the failed Neo-con policies of the past 75 years.
So far Trump doesn't support force to remove Assad. Do you still want to be concerned about it? That's fine. I don't trust any politician.
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