Prager: Why My Stepsons’ Father Killed Himself

Truthrevolt.org ^ | 1-31-2017 | Dennis Prager

[Mrs. Don-o]

I already posted -— poarweed to you, in fact -— an argment that what Samson did wasn’t suicide.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Poarweed"?

i>"Poarweed"

That doesn't make sense, even for the mechanical mind of the imbecilic Auto-correct.

I think my 'puter is possessed.

[Mrs. Don-o]

This sort of discussion can descend into mutual incomprehension if there are not mutually-agreed definitions.

Please define “murder”.

[Crucial]

??

[Elsie]

Your statement contained a presumption I was.not willing to concede.

The sane folks that justify Samson's??

---

I see your point!

[Elsie]

This is so fundamental and obvious I'm mildly flabbergasted by the ongoing push-back.

I guess using the word 'data' for the word evidence is just too great a leap.

[Elsie]

I already posted -— poarweed to you, in fact -— an argment that what Samson did wasn’t suicide.

Yes; you sure did.

Next thing ya know I'll learn that a church approved annulment is not the same as divorce.

[Elsie]

Please define “murder”.

I think that YOU brought it up.

Evidently your chosen religion has taught you that suicide is 'murder'.

I was merely wondering how it can be justified as such.

[Mrs. Don-o]

So, for clarity, could you please define murder so we will not be talking past each other when we use this term?

You may offer your own definition, and/or that of your chosen religion. :o)

[Mrs. Don-o]

Data is a subset of evidence, but it is not the whole of evidence -— not by a long shot.

Data consists of facts and statistics collected for analysis, with special reference to its usefulness for computation or mathematical calculation.

The words “data” and “evidence” are related but not synonymous. The Bible, a love letter, the instructions on how to dye a polyester jacket, a grocery list -— for instance-— constitute evidence but contain little or no data.

[Paved Paradise]

I’m glad you stuck up for her, even though they banned you. Everyone should have a son that loves them that much. I think one of the biggest problems is that pain is very hard to quantify and people who have not had pain, or had pain to that level, are plainly clueless.

[Elsie]

So, for clarity, could you please define murder so we will not be talking past each other when we use this term?

No; you claimed that suicide was MURDER.

YOU do the defining.

[Elsie]

Thanks for the lesson.

Now, back to the subject at hand.

[Elsie]

The Bible, a love letter, the instructions on how to dye a polyester jacket, a grocery list -— for instance-— constitute evidence but contain little or no data.

I guess the book of Numbers isn't studied much in Catholicism.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Yeah, we got Numbers.

You never heard of Bingo?

[Elsie]

We’re told suicide is a mortal sin...

Unless it’s not a ‘suicide’.

[Elsie]

Yes. I’ve seen the evidence.

Unlike the LACK of evidence that suicide is a mortal sin; every time.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I never said "Suicide is a mortal sin every time" --- if by that you mean that subjective factors such as extreme pain, panic, mental illness or depression could not mitigate the guilt.

Neither I nor the Church can know with moral certainty the interior disposition of another person's soul. All we can know is that, objectively speaking, killing is against the Commandment of God.

Excluding Samson (and I'll tell you it's reasonable to say he wasn't a suicide), there are six suicides in the Bible, and none of them are approved by God:

Abimelech; Saul; Saul's armor-bearer; Ahithophel; Zimri; Judas Iscariot.

Samson is legitimately a separate case because his intent was not to kill himself but to kill the Philistines, not be dying, but by bringing down the building. If he could have contrived to escape from the place alive as the sole survivor, there's no reason to think he wouldn't have done so: his own death was not his goal. This is called "Double Effect."

The Gospel of Christ gives us the most definitive reason for not destroying our bodies, as St. Paul says:

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body

1 Corinthians 3:17
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.

[Elsie]

I never said "Suicide is a mortal sin every time"

Of course you didn't.

I used 'every time' for bait.

Now then; back to what your chosen religion defines as MURDER...

[Mrs. Don-o]

If you can’t or won’t define murder (which is the specific kind of sin we’ve been talking about all along) I can’t see the point of continuing this discussion. We’re not going to understand each other if we can’t agree on what is meant by a by a wrongful killing.