Posted on 12/24/2016 10:29:05 AM PST by boycott
The federal government employs 2.1 million civilian workers in hundreds of agencies at offices across the nation.1 The federal workforce imposes a substantial burden on America's taxpayers. In 2016 wages and benefits for executive branch civilian workers cost $267 billion.2
Since the 1990s, federal workers have enjoyed faster compensation growth than private-sector workers. In 2015 federal workers earned 76 percent more, on average, than private-sector workers.3 Federal workers earned 42 percent more, on average, than state and local government workers.4 The federal government has become an elite island of secure and high-paid employment, separated from the ocean of average Americans competing in the economy.
Spurred by the large budget deficits of recent years, policymakers have trimmed the growth in federal wages. In particular, they imposed a partial freeze on federal wages from 2011 to 2013, which saved billions of dollars. To find further savings, policymakers should turn their attention to the generous benefit packages received by federal workers. They should also reduce the overall size of the federal workforce by terminating low-value programs.
(Excerpt) Read more at downsizinggovernment.org ...
How much skill does it take to watch porn all day and steal office supplies? I’ll bet good money we could cut 10% of the workforce and 10% of their salaries and we wouldn’t notice. I hope Trump looks in to farming out a bunch of gubmint salaries to people that work for half that much. Why pay $60k to file papers and run a copy machine? Whole agencies could be gutted if we tried.
Thibodeaux wrote: in order to have capable people and a functioning government.
Good reasons for paying more for federal workers. The point is, all these threads about reducing federal pay to match the average pay in private industry makes the assumption that the average federal worker has the same skills and performs comparable work to the average person in private industry. That is a very bad assumption.
Questions:
- Why should the average federal worker make the same as the average person in the private sector?
Instead of that, why should the average federal worker make MORE? They shouldn’t.
I would complain less if they had about the same salary and benefits as those in the private sector.
The stories of federal workers watching porn all day always makes me shake my head. These people cannot be fired.
The federal workforce (not including military) needs to be about 20-35% of its current size. More functions need to be handled by private industry or state and local governments.
No, not really. Our fighting forces, talking about the enlisted ranks, join for a variety of reasons, one small one being pay. And just before this post was one from a Vet who was working for the government for less than 30K/year... I suggest he does it because he likes it. Many low paid jobs are filled by people who like that particular job. Of course the Marxists exploit those few who can't get another job paying more because they are not qualified.
The point being, NCO's and officers are paid fairly. You don't believe that, drive through the NCO and officer quarters on any post and see if you can find an old car, they are all new. This is fair, a career in the military is a crap shoot, so taking risks for your country should be compensated.
The same cannot be said for government employees. The case can be made, ignoring quite a few capable and qualified and hard-working individuals, that a government job is white-collar welfare. Dare I say that? But it's true, talk with some HS grads and their dream is to get a State of Federal job, sit on their fist, lean back on their thumb, and coast for 30 years.
So by all means, cut benefits, wages, and retirement for Fed workers. Let's go back to our philosophy of the 50's, before the Marxists shoved their nose under the tent, when a government career was low paid but you were assured a retirement, a genteel retirement. That worked well and kept out the trashy people who just wanted the bennies. Trashy people being those with high degrees and good test takers but no skill sets or real world experience, and who are too lazy to work at a real job. Pay 'Fair' wages, as determined by our wonderful Marxists, and the trashy people line up for their place at the trough, fed by the taxes of the real workers.
Paying high wages does not necessarily attract the good workers.
boycott wrote: Instead of that, why should the average federal worker make MORE? They shouldn’t.
You’re right, they shouldn’t but these studies do not compare the average government engineer to the average private engineer. The federal government has a higher percentage of professionals than private industry. For example, there are very few burger flippers in the federal government. When you average all government employees to all non-government employees, you are not comparing apples to apples. In effect, these kinds of studies are as realistic as those studies that compare the wages of all men to the wages of all women.
Other studies have compared government professionals to private professionals and government non-professionals to private non-professionals. These studies say that government professionals are under paid and government non-professionals are over paid
Woman
Anything non-White
Native American
Veteran
Handicapped
I have no problems with anyone being able to check veteran or handicapped.
I always give the winning company that I'm a double ribbie vet for Vietnam and Gulf War I. They love me on Tricare prime so they don't have to pay for my healthcare. I get nothing out of it but bargaining power to be hired for another 5 years. Maybe slightly higher pay.
That's something I could believe, although I wonder if the study included benefits.
Do they really? I grew up on the farm and have worked really hard for much of my life. I find it difficult to imagine a government employee doing anything I would call working hard.
Okay. They put in their 9-10 hours of actually doing what they are supposed to be doing. Not slugs or goofing around. Not everyone has to be a steel worker or roofer for work to be "work".
“not one tear for military retirees....I say that as a person’s who’s spouse gets a guard pension....and who’s family is heavy with military exp...”
I was pointing out the differences between Fed retiree pay and military retiree pay. For those who may not know.
AND... up until a decade ago military were not allowed to save in the fed TSP. It now allowed. Which could possibly help.
Guard pay system is run by states, is it not? Is guard pay aligned with state retiree pay plans?
I realize certain positions are professional. I know too that most of those people have to work for their jobs.
Engineers are certainly different. I have friends that work with the Corp of Engineers. I’ve also had friends that have worked with NASA. It’s usually not people in these positions that are the problem.
It’s the types that are hired around DC that are the problem. They’re not engineers (maybe social engineers) but not real engineers. And it’s not just in DC.
It’s also not just the federal government. I’ve seen teachers in their 40s retire. I’ve seen city workers retire in their late 40s and early 50s.
boycott wrote: It’s also not just the federal government. I’ve seen teachers in their 40s retire. I’ve seen city workers retire in their late 40s and early 50s.
I think you’ll find much greater disparities in local and state governments.
The bottom line is this. Be very wary of averages. As a former boss pointed out, one can drown crossing a river with an average depth of six inches.
401's only.....
granting lifetime pensions after 20 yrs is INSANITY especially since people live so long nowadays....
it must stop....
I guess you don't know that the stroke of a pen and retirees are back active duty. The "retirement" money is a retainer fee much like when you purchase a blanket maintenance contract. Even if you never call the company for maintenance, you still pay the company for the coverage. Theoretically there is an age cutoff of the 30 year anniversary from your original enlistment date or age 62 but I know of some officers that got recalled outside those parameters right after 9-11.
Not to say the military pension system doesn't need reforming, but tell me where you got your expertise.
I see your point. One challenge government employees have is .... well ... working for the government. Our government certainly isn’t always the most efficient.
I realize it’s not fair to group all federal employees into the same basket. That would almost be like saying all blacks are this way. All women are this way, etc.
Again, I see your point. However, there is fat that needs to be trimmed from the federal workforce.
These surveys that compare the compensation of the average federal worker to that of the average non-government worker are as worthwhile as those who compare the compensation of the average man to that of the average woman.
I don’t know. Some of the low-skilled do pretty well working with the government. They certainly wouldn’t have their pay, job security, or benefits package in private industry.
So many companies in private industry are here today and gone tomorrow. The low-skilled lucky enough to hook up with the government are going to get theirs.
You’re not going to convince me that the OVERALL compensation and benefits package isn’t better with the government. I don’t hear of people in private industry retiring so early. I don’t hear of people in private industry getting such retirement packages. And they have the best healthcare in the land.
I know the vacation programs saved over years. I know the sick days carried forward. I know they’re off every imaginable holiday. Government employees don’t go through the stress of those in private industry.
Yeah, there’s some truth to your point but, overall, government is less productive and the pay and benefits packages are better.
I was a career federal employee. Retired six years ago. Very glad my pension is locked in.
I don’t blame you. The future may be a little different for those starting now with the government.
Even what the colleges pay the teachers and employees is amazing. The incomes for a junior college in my state run from $ 90,000.00 to $ 250,000.00 with perks. We are talking janitors and weight lifting coaches. We are talking about 400 employees. Where does all of this money come from?
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