Posted on 10/05/2016 5:38:13 AM PDT by Kaslin
Mike Pence won. It wasn't especially close in my book. A few thoughts:
(1) Kaine was peevish and annoying with his incessant interruptions, to which Pence responded calmly -- occasionally evincing forcefulness, at other times appearing amused. Donald Trump's running mate also made a point of highlighting Kaine's painfully rehearsed lines, mocking them gently -- and not so gently -- each time. On style, this was a clock-cleaning.
(2) On policy substance, Pence was fluid and prepared. Kaine was also familiar with his briefing book. It appeared as though Kaine was instructed to raise anti-Trump attack lines and talking points at every single opportunity. If that was his goal, mission accomplished. Others have made these observations, but I'll amplify them: Kaine did not seem interested in winning this debate. He seemed interested in emptying his rhetorical clip of opposition research on the man at the top of his counterpart's ticket. And Pence declined, repeatedly, to answer specific charges and challenges about things Trump has done and said. He made a choice not to defend the indefensible. These dynamics were 'sore-thumb' obvious. A fair question some have asked: Was Pence so polished, informed, relaxed and smooth that he only accentuated the reality that Trump is none of those things?
(3) While Kaine was constantly on offense against Trump, occasionally defending Mrs. Clinton with brief talking points, Pence picked his spots. He prosecuted a tough case against the Clinton Foundation's foreign donations. He raised her email scandal on multiple occasions, including in the context of cyber security, where Trump whiffed last week. And over and over again, he would not let Kaine get away with the ridiculous claim that the Iran deal ended that anti-American regime's nuclear program. It does nothing of the sort, and effectively guarantees that Iran will be a threshold nuclear state when the agreement's restrictions automatically expire. Even President Obama has more or less admitted as much. Kaine kept advancing a mischaracterization, and Pence kept calling him on it. The Indiana Governor's decision to go criticize Hillary Clinton's extreme views on abortion was also a great move, especially since he underscored Kaine's politically-motivated reversals on those questions, causing the Virginia Senator to squirm in his seat.
(4) The moderator was pilloried by viewers online throughout the evening, and I agree that she seemed inclined to cut Pence off as he was getting into the meat of Clinton's various scandals. But in her defense, she repeatedly called Kaine out for interrupting and asked pointed, substantive questions of both candidates, including two queries pertaining to the national debt and entitlements. Maybe I'm an outlier here, but I thought she was fine overall, even if she didn't pick her "enforcement" spots perfectly.
(5) I'm not sure any of this matters. This election is the Trump and Clinton show, and while Pence was effective at prosecuting a tough case against the Democratic nominee and (sometimes painfully) side-stepping challenges about Trump's long rap sheet of statements, Kaine remained relentlessly on-message as an attack dog. That may have frustrated and turned off many viewers, but negativity works. If Donald Trump wants to reverse the self-inflicted negative momentum he's experiencing in this race, he's going to have to do so himself on Sunday. Pence passed this test with flying colors, but he's not the man in the spotlight. The Hoosier State Republican did everything he could to help his ticket, and he may have created a favorable and stabilizing impression, but the undercard debate cannot and will not be decisive. I'll leave you with this. Decisive:
Who won tonight's vice-presidential debate?
• 22 say Mike Pence
• 4 say Tim Kaine#VPDebate— Frank Luntz (@FrankLuntz) October 5, 2016
And closer, but a win:
CNN poll debate watchers
48 Pence
42 Kaine— Sam Stein (@samsteinhp) October 5, 2016
[I’m listening to NPR right now. A voter veing interviewed in a roundtable just said that She hates trump, but last night her respect increased for him because he had the capability to choose someone like Pence as his running mate.
And when asked it it would affect her ability to vote for trump, she said, “absolutely”.]
Which succinctly supports the view that Trump will pick the right people to get the job done for the American people.
It was the Tourette’s debate. Kaine had memorized and probably been threatened with getting in every one of the ‘zingers’ that he just blurted them out one after another or when inappropriate. He wasn’t actually debating- just spewing memorized lines that I’m sure he was in fear for his life of forgetting.
Pence stopped the Bleeding, hence, he is now “Pence the STANCHER!!”
DNC voter fraud is the ONLY thing that can explain TWO Clinton elections and TWO “O” elections.
They are the tired party with the tired ideology...they HAVE to cheat to win-PERIOD
He did more than stop the bleeding. He infused new pro-life blood into the campaign. Not that I doubt Trump is now pro-life, but Gov Pence articulated the Christian worldview in so winsomely and beautifully.
There could not be more daylight between Hillary/Kaine and Trump/Pence on pro-life. I hope this will bring out the evangelicals in force, as well as cause Roman Catholics (of which Kaine is supposedly a member of) to seriously vote their conscience.
Thanks to Helicondelta
Who won tonight’s vice-presidential debate?
• 22 say Mike Pence
• 4 say Tim Kaine#VPDebate—
Frank Luntz (@FrankLuntz) October 5, 2016
Keep in mind the CNN polls of debate watchers were in VA, and many of them had voted for Kaine in the past... so its about as biased toward Kaine as you could have gotten
Great leaders know how to surround themselves with great people and get the best out of them.
At least on the pick of Pence for VP, Trump certainly showed he made the better choice than Hillary did.
At least on the pick of Pence for VP, Trump certainly showed he made the better choice than Hillary did.
I don’t doubt it. Clinton News Network is for Hillary Rotten Clinton after all. Regardless though whether they like it or not Governor Pence won the debate handsdown.
Well for this one, I don’t see it as biased, just the fact the debate was IN virginia and so they found local “undecideds” for their panel...
The telling thing about Kaine losing this thing so bad, was that all the liberal commentators afterward admitted Pence won, every single of on of them I saw, hell even the MSNBC crowd admitted Kaine lost...
That tells you not only did Pence win, but he won huge.
He sure did.
Tell him or her to consider it “borrowed” err I mean stolen.
I agree completely.
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