Posted on 06/16/2016 9:12:21 AM PDT by Kaslin
By the way, my intention is not to compare who has the bigger degree or knowledge. I will bow to your knowledge and experience in this area. I, too often, try to be brief and unfortunately, garble my message. We conservatives have bigger issues to concern us and don’t need to argue among ourselves.
Oh, and by the way, James Kallstrom is a lying vindictive bastard.
In a documentary which leans more towards the government stories than the witnesses, he said (paraphrasing) that he would have accepted any evidence that proved it was anything other than a mechanical failure; that he would have welcomed anybody who could have presented such evidence.
James Sanders did. He was imprisoned for his investigative work. Not only that, but his wife was arrested and imprisoned as well, and she did essentially nothing to warrant it.
I choose to believe the witnesses. If you want to try and discredit over 500 people and accept the government agencies’ stories, then I can’t convince you otherwise; vaya con Dios.
...
I took a fair look at the top two witnesses, and said for the most part, that I believe they saw what they said they saw, but their interpretations are wrong. I also pointed out inconsistencies with what they did say. Quantity isn’t going to make up for that.
I’ve read numerous statements from people with many years of experience in the justice system that eye witnesses are the least reliable of all evidence. Fred Myer and Mike Wire are perfect examples of that, even though they are both good people. The problems with eye witness testimony are due to the nature of the human brain, rather than the character, intelligence or experience of the people.
Purdue77 wrote: “By the way, my intention is not to compare who has the bigger degree or knowledge. I will bow to your knowledge and experience in this area. I, too often, try to be brief and unfortunately, garble my message. We conservatives have bigger issues to concern us and don’t need to argue among ourselves.”
Agreed. I spent a considerable amount of my time in calculating operational effectiveness. You must realize as well as I do the amount of foolish information in these TWA 800 threads.
Sounds like you did a large amount of work for NASA. I don’t have much experience in those areas. I spent my time working in/for the Army.
By your logic, because Kallstrom didn’t accept illogical so-called “evidence,” he is a liar?
“He was imprisoned for his investigative work. Not only that, but his wife was arrested and imprisoned as well, and she did essentially nothing to warrant it.”
Actually, no, this self-appointed “investigator” was imprisoned for theft.
And if someone “essentially” did nothing to warrant a conviction means that yes, they did something warrant it, it’s just that the writer doesn’t like the jury’s conclusion.
“Essentially innocent” is much like one cannot be a “little bit pregnant.”
http://nypost.com/2015/07/12/end-of-life-counselling-death-panels-are-back/
Stay healthy, Grandpa. Remember, no government officials lie, especially when it’s in their best interest to do so:
https://flight800doc.com/fact-checking/fact-checking-james-kallstrom/
No missiles, no death panels, no Muslim terrorists, no inflation, no unemployment, no railroading... just unicorns, happiness, and rainbows, old man. Government and law says so, that makes it true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6umn4nsNN2E
I was wrong about imprisonment. The Sanders’s got probation. They shouldn’t have gotten anything.
I took a fair look at the top two witnesses
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let’s see what you said.
“Myer was probably 14 miles away. Mike Wire was around 11 miles away.”
You seem to be trying to discredit the witnesses by saying they were too far away.
You can see aircraft (and missiles) at that distance easily. It was a very clear evening.
“They were almost on an identical line of sight.”
I do not know if this is true, other than your assertion. I don’t know how it would make a difference.
“Myer is inconsistent with his testimony, one time saying he saw 4 ordnance explosions and another time saying he saw 2 ordnance explosions, and concluding himself that would imply two missiles.”
Instead of a long search for rebuttal, let me simply post a link to an affidavit from Meyer dated 2003, which puts it 7 years after the event.
http://twa800.com/lahr/affidavits/o-fred-meyer.pdf
The NY Times had an article dated 2 days after the event, mentioning Meyer saying something about 2 explosions.
In that article, they didn’t even get the aircraft that Meyer was piloting correct. Good ol’ NYT, hard-hitting journalism at its finest.
“If he saw 4 ordnance explosions then that would imply 4 missiles.”
The number of trails implies the number of missiles. I’m not a missile expert by any means, but I have heard of multiple explosions from a single strike, and seen some in war footage in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It’s still seeing a trail BEFORE seeing the explosions, which is absolutely impossible according to the CIA animation. Ear testimony (hearing the explosions) is only 5% of the total witness testimony, despite Kallstrom’s lie of it being 80%, and I don’t recall Meyer testifying that he heard anything before actually seeing the streak and the explosion.
“They both seem to be saying the aircraft came straight down after the final ‘non-ordnance’ fireball. However we know from the debris field that the back end of the aircraft did not come straight down. It kept flying and came down further east than the nose section.”
Colloquially speaking, it did come straight down. It flew like pieces of metal going a few hundred miles per hour fly when they’re launched into the sky.
There was a debris field before the nose and before the rest of the fuselage (the supposedly climbing/flying part). There was no center tank debris found in that field, even though its explosion was supposed to be the cause of the nose separation and the crash.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quantity [of witnesses] isn’t going to make up for that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If they all say the same thing completely independent from each other, and given the weakness of your “inconsistencies”, then I would tend to believe them rather than one source with vested interests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The problems with eye witness testimony are due to the nature of the human brain, rather than the character, intelligence or experience of the people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mass hysteria among hundreds of people far away from each other is a more rational explanation to you than having a Presidential administration lie to us.
Vaya con Dios, mi amigo. I hope you are more skeptical of Hillary than Bill, if she somehow becomes our next President... God help us all.
Also no science to back up any of the wild assertions.
Do you really believe that not one of the 300 sailors on a Navy ship would have said something?
“Myer was probably 14 miles away. Mike Wire was around 11 miles away.”
You seem to be trying to discredit the witnesses by saying they were too far away.
You can see aircraft (and missiles) at that distance easily. It was a very clear evening.
“They were almost on an identical line of sight.”
I do not know if this is true, other than your assertion. I don’t know how it would make a difference.
...
I’m simply pointing out that they both had an almost identical view of the incident. It’s easily confirmed by using their testimony, coordinates from Wiki and Google Maps.
Another conflict between Myer’s testimony and that of Wire is that Wire saw his “firework” zigzagging, whereas Myer saw his “missile” moving smoothly.
Once again you’re being lazy by saying 500 witnesses all saw the same thing, when in fact it’s easy to show that not even the top two witnesses, who had an almost identical view of the incident, agree about what they saw.
I loved the “witness” who “heard” an explosion, look up and “saw the missile....”
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.