Posted on 04/20/2016 12:50:15 PM PDT by maggief
HOLLYWOOD, Fla. — The Republican National Committee’s eight state convention threshold rule could be interpreted differently than anyone expects this summer in Cleveland.
Donald Trump and Ted Cruz 97% argue that Ohio Gov. John Kasich could never become the nominee, because Kasich cannot win eight primary contests to be eligible.
However, RNC Standing Rules Committee member Randy Evans told The Daily Caller at the Spring RNC Meeting Wednesday that a nominee does not need to “win” eight state primary contests to qualify to be put into contention — only the support of eight delegations at the convention.
“You do not have to win them. Because the rules says you have to demonstrate support of the majority of eight states as opposed to you have to win eight states,” Evans said. “So theoretically you could have a state — and the precedent is that’s what it was designed to do, which is to permit a state you didn’t win to nonetheless support putting your name in nomination.”
Known as Rule 40b, the eight state threshold came about at the GOP Tampa Convention in 2012, when the Romney campaign pushed it as a way to deny then-Rep. Ron Paul any chance of getting the nomination. The previous threshold was five states.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...
You would think they would do that.
But this guy is right. You have to demonstrate the majority of the delegates of eight states.
We’ve sort of assumed all along that delegates would be loyal to the candidate that won them. And that’s a bad assumption. They are bound on the first vote, but there is nothing that stops them from signing up to support another nominee.
They might as well make a 'rule' that says if 10 of them jump up and down while saying 'boogly wooglly' that they can nullify every Republican voter in the country.
Why go half way? We're NOT fooled.
We stood in lines for hours to vote so these self appointed blowhards steal our votes? This is NOT going to end well... for them. Yes, we'll vote the GOPe out... and all t heir minions too.
The purpose of this - and other 'rule changes' is to allow GOPe losers to step in and 'win'. That's wrong.
The spawn of this nomination process gives can never be legitimate.
This process gives the finger to all voters in the United States... and yeah, I'm including democrat voters. When any of us lose the value of our vote in a free country we all lose ...
OK, so we stretch the definition of “win a majority” to “win a plurality”. No one got 50% outright, but someone got 40%, more than the others, so that’s a “state support” and counts.
How many States has Kasich won even by this definition? One - Ohio.
Hi CA Conservative —
Yes, I remember you raising this exact issue a couple of times. They were more fully explained in your earlier posts. Reality is that the RNC Rules member is responding directly to the question being asked. The medium asking doesn’t know enough to follow up.
I believe you are correct - that the certification of a majority of delegates of eight states is required. I know that if I were a delegate (I am not) pledged to Trump as a result of the states voting allocation, I would have personal reservations signing a certification. I would think that there are delegates with integrity of their convictions. But, I still think Mr. Trump will be able to cobble together eight state delegations.
Over the last week I’ve had occasion to talk with a former Corporation Commissioner (Democrat not supporting Clinton or Sanders) and a banker (Republican supporting Kasich). The sense was the same - this entire election cycle is in disarray.
I’m continually amazed at people that want others to quit before the final buzzer. That’s why Texas A&M came from 12 points behind with 14 seconds on the clock. We, as Americans, are taught to play the entire time, and never give up or shave points. I learned many years ago that I never should make decisions for others unless they ask me, and pay me. Cruz will do what Cruz will do. Trump will do what Trump will do. We are all spectators on the passing scene. We may not make the same decisions as them, but we don’t have any authority to make it for them. But, let’s let the game play out under the rules. The goal (for nomination) is 1237; regardless of which ballot it may come.
Sorry for the rant, my FRiend.
Gwjack
The rule change is to allow the Establishment to put a person into play who has not won eight States... or many any states. This might not be the last rule change...
They might as well make a ‘rule’ that says if 10 of them jump up and down while saying ‘boogly wooglly’ that they can nullify every Republican voter in the country.
Why go half way? We’re NOT fooled.
Behild he bureaucratic mentality and loopholes they manufactured. Only them can win through technicalities, booting out Rand for being too little and Trump too big. Ridiculously arcane and bizantine
Here's the rule. Let's talk it out.
(b) Each candidate for nomination for President of the United States and Vice President of the United States shall demonstrate the support of a majority of the delegates from each of eight (8) or more states, severally, prior to the presentation of the name of that candidate for nomination. Notwithstanding any other provisions of these rules or any rule of the House of Representatives, to demonstrate the support required of this paragraph a certificate evidencing the affirmative written support of the required number of permanently seated delegates from each of the eight (8) or more states shall have been submitted to the secretary of the convention not later than one (1) hour prior to the placing of the names of candidates for nomination pursuant to this rule and the established order of business.[snip]
(e) If no candidate shall have received such majority, the chairman of the convention shall direct the roll of the states be called again and shall repeat the calling of the roll until a candidate shall have received a majority of the votes entitled to be cast in the convention.
It seems to me that names are placed into nomination only once, no later than 60 minutes before the first calling of the rolls. Additional calling of the rolls pertain only to the names placed into nomination 60 minutes before the first roll call.
Now, and here is the tricky part, it seems to me that delegates bound to a candidate for the first roll call cannot switch their statement of support before that roll call when the certificate of support is due; they are still pledged. Also, no new "white knight" candidate can be added after the first roll call, as calls for nominations and certificates of support are closed.
The only recourse is to fundamentally change rule 40 at the convention, which would require the cooperation of the Trump and Cruz delegates to reach an affirmative majority; or party convention managers can pull the voice vote "Ayes have it" trickery and trigger a riot.
-PJ
This isn't a rule change - it is the way the rule is currently written. People have mistakenly represented the rule as being that a candidate must have WON a majority of delegates in 8 states, but that is not what the rule says.
Here is the trickier part: there is nothing in the rules that says that a bound delegate must sign the statement of support for the candidate to whom they are bound. The only thing they are bound to do is to VOTE for that candidate for the number of ballots specified by their state. They are not required to support the candidate in any other way, whether that be voting for rules, delegate challenges or signing a statement of support for the nomination.
I’m for Trump. And I’ve posted several times here that rule 40 does not say you have to get your 8 state majorities by primary or caucus wins. People need to download and read the rule.
Look, if there is no winner after round one, the chair can reopen nominations. THEN all you have to do is turn in a paper wherein you are nominated by 8 state’s majority delegates. It doesn’t sat you have to come into the convention with 8 majorities. The rule was designed to keep out Ron Paul ON ROUND ONE. There was never going to be a round two, so the rule was never worded to keep out round 2, 3, etc. nominations. They just didn’t want the embarrassment of Paul being nominated, because then there would be a speech, etc.
Most people, including the majority of people on TV who purport to be experts, haven t even read the rule. I have no idea what rules will say by the time the convention is underway, but I can tell you now that rule 40 does not bar Kasich, or even a “parachute” candidate from being put into play.
(2) For any manner of binding or allocating delegates under these rules, if a delegate (i) casts a vote for a presidential candidate at the national convention inconsistent with the delegate’s obligation under state law or state party rule, (ii) nominates or demonstrates support under Rule No. 40 for a presidential candidate other than the one to whom the delegate is bound or allocated under state law or state party rule, or (iii) fails in some other way to carry out the delegate’s affirmative duty under state law or state party rule to cast a vote at the national convention for a particular presidential candidate, the delegate shall be deemed to have concurrently resigned as a delegate and the delegate’s improper vote or nomination shall be null and void. Thereafter the secretary of the convention shall record the delegate’s vote or nomination in accordance with the delegate’s obligation under state law or state party rule. This subsection does not apply to delegates who are bound to a candidate who has withdrawn his or her candidacy, suspended or terminated his or her campaign, or publicly released his or her delegates.
The only way is for Cruz to drop out, and then the states Cruz won conspire with the GOPe to support a white knight, as only Cruz has enough wins to reach the 8 state threshold of free delegates.
-PJ
He hire the best in Paul J. Manafort no more rookie stuff , just as Paul out worked Romney they got rid of them with rule 40B
I am sure Paul Manafort knows how to end this Crap
I missed that one - so at least on the first ballot, only Cruz and Trump. But after the first ballot a lot of delegates become unbound, so it would be possible at that point if they reopen the nominations.
Which would require a change to rule 40, unless there is some Roberts Rules of Order parliamentary trickery to temporarily suspend the rules.
The more the GOPe resorts to extreme measures, the worse it will get.
-PJ
40b Each candidate for nomination for President of the United States and Vice President of the United States shall demonstrate the support of a majority of the delegates from each of eight (8) or more states, severally, prior to the presentation of the name of that candidate for nomination. Notwithstanding any other provisions of these rules or any rule of the House of Representatives, to demonstrate the support required of this paragraph a certificate evidencing the affirmative written support of the required number of permanently seated delegates from each of the eight (8) or more states shall have been submitted to the secretary of the convention not later than one (1) hour prior to the placing of the names of candidates for nomination pursuant to this rule and the established order of business.
The real problem is the stacking of delegates who aren't loyal to the candidate who won them. Candidates should be able to appoint their own delegates.
If the delegates were all loyal to the candidate they are bound to, then Kasich's only hope to get 8 states is to win enough unbound delegates to get a majority in 8 different states.
And having a significant portion of your delegates unbound is another form of rigging.
Actually the convention is operated under the rules of the House of Representatives. I think I read that they were trying to change it so that Roberts Rules were used because the Rules of the House would allow them to reopen the nominations.
Here is the actual rule 40b, and it states a person must win by showing the delegates. It does say “demonstrate”, but it goes on to stay that “demonstrate” means delegates.
The eGOP are crooked liars.
“(b) Each candidate for nomination for President of the United States and Vice President of the United States shall
demonstrate the support of a majority of the delegates from each of eight (8) or more states, severally, prior to the presentation of
the name of that candidate for nomination. Notwithstanding any other provisions of these rules or any rule of the House of
Representatives, to demonstrate the support required of this paragraph a certificate evidencing the affirmative written support of
the required number of permanently seated delegates from each of the eight (8) or more states shall have been submitted to the
secretary of the convention not later than one (1) hour prior to the placing of the names of candidates for nomination pursuant to
this rule and the established order of business.”
True. That is rule 30.
I don't think it will be as easy as it seems to use the House rules to abuse the convention rules. House rules are set up for legislative purposes.
-PJ
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