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In answer to both your #585 and #586:

You are barking up the wrong tree.

Waco: No justification whatsoever for the murder of the inhabitants of the Waco Branch Davidian "compound." Koresh was an armed religious nut but, as P. J. O'Rourke observed at the time, wait....this country was founded by armed religious nuts!

Koresh had previously been indicted for alleged federal firearms violations. The county sheriff called him on the telephone to tell Koresh that the sheriff had to serve Koresh with the arrest warrant or bill of indictment and asked where Koresh would prefer to be served at the "compound" or at a coffee shop in town. Koresh drove to the coffee shop, was served, showed up in court as scheduled, was tried and fully acquitted by a federal jury.

Given that track record, the Clinton Administration/Janet Reno/FBI/Federal Marshal/military actions against Koresh that led to all those deaths was utterly inexcusable. Those who attacked the compound and its inhabitants should have been tried and, if convicted. punished with death.

Janet "Shakes" Reno, the Attorney General, said she would take responsibility for Waco's results. Fine! Ms. Reno, have a seat in Old Sparky here and be patient while we attach the electrodes for you to ride the lightning straight to hell. Clean up Old Sparky and keep that assembly line rolling until all those responsible are no more.

Do you think the Waco situation or our nation itself would be improved by private citizens hunting down and killing the wives and children of those who perpetrated the atrocity at Waco? I don't. We do not believe in guilt by family association. In fact, the Constitution forbids "bills of attainder" which was Britspeak for blaming the families of perps and punishing them too. Think of this paragraph as THE QUESTION. It will be so referenced below by analogy in other situations.

Ruby Ridge: Randy Weaver, a decorated Army Ranger veteran of Vietnam, was noticed by the fedgov for operating under the delusion that he and his family were of the ten lost tribes of Israel and destined to march in the armies of the Lord at Armageddon. Hey, Americans are entitled to hold such views. The First Amendment protects them.

Randy was FRAMED by the federales for reasons unknown (other than he was an "armed religious nut" which really disturbs liberals/see P.J. O'Rourke above). Some biker/drug dealer was arrested by the feds who offered him a deal of getting off in exchange for getting Randy Weaver to saw off two shotguns one half inch shorter than allowed by fedlaw. As a special extra the biker punk took Randy to a neo-nazi "church" and Randy told the biker punk that his father had fought the nazis in WWII and Randy was leaving NOW. Randy was arrested and promised to appear in fed court and did. He was again framed when his next appearance date was CHANGED by the fedjudge AFTER Randy left court. He was arrested then for failure to appear. Enter Gerry Spence as Randy's attorney after the carnage at Randy's home. Randy was acquitted and got a multi-million dollar settlement from the fedgov. No doubt, he would have rather kept his wife and his son and let the taxpayers keep the $$$$$.

Federal marshals set up in hiding on Randy's property behind a large boulder. They were discovered by the family dog and Randy's 10-year old son Sammy (?). They shot and killed the dog. Sammy fired back with his .22 pea shooter. Then the marshals opened up on the kid, blowing off one arm at the elbow and then shooting him fatally in the back as he ran to the imagined safety of the family cabin. Randy and a young man living there were wounded in an exchange with the marshals one of whom was killed (and justifiably so).

A fed sniper employed by the FBI and named Lon Horiuchi (an alumnus of West Point and Harvard), drew a bead on Vicki Weaver's head through a glass window in her back door and blew half her head off as she stood holding her infant in her arms. We settled the law at Nuremberg that "I was only following orders" is no defense and will get you executed. Mr. Horiuchi: Have a seat in Old Sparky. We will attach the electrodes momentarily. But Horiuchi should not have ridden that lightning alone. It should have been another assembly line, after due process, trial and conviction, to terminate every Ruby Ridge decision maker and actor against the Weavers.

But again, THE QUESTION. See above.

Let's go one step further. Timothy McVeigh was executed for the destruction of the Alfred Murrah fedcourthouse in Oklahoma City. He apparently believed that his truck bomb brought the building down. It did not, according to the fedcourt appointed expert on his behalf, a man who ran the explosives laboratory for the US Air Force for 35 years. He examined the remains of the building and found that it was brought down by explosive charges at three levels of EACH of the three support pillars that held up the entire 17-story building and that the truck bomb could only damage, at worst, a portion of the first floor but definitely not enough to bring the building down. Coincidentally (or not), the FBI office in Oklahoma City was in the Murrah Building and the Agent in charge took ALL of the agents across town for breakfast that morning, leaving the office secretarial staff behind. They died.

Now, I don't like to be paranoid but the agent in charge at Oklahoma City was earlier the agent in charge at Waco AND later at Ruby Ridge by which time he had become Deputy Director of the FBI. I do not remember his name but he was hauled before the Senate Judiciary and interrogated by Arlen Spector, probably one of the top five trial attorneys in the US whatever we may think of his politics. Mr. Deputy Director quickly resigned and has not been heard from since. Too hot a potato for even the federales to protect. Mr. Deputy Director, have a seat in Old Sparky here and the festivities will begin any moment. Then, the real life zot! Ride the Lightning! AND make it another assembly line for all responsible.

Again: THE QUESTION.

Additionally, I would sharply restrict budget and personnel of FBI and Fed Marshal's Service and similar agencies. If they have so much time on their hands that they keep busy hunting and killing innocent American civilians, they could stand to be put on a severe $$$$$ diet.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, as we know it, should be abolished altogether and the name given to a private sector chain of convenience stores where you can get your guns, your ammo, your gear, your liquor and your smokes at one stop.

The fedgov should be forced to liquidate its land holdings ten per cent per year as well and to acquire no more land.

I spent thirty years practicing criminal defense law and resisting "the king's minions" successfully. I occasionally defended some rank and file cops who were improperly treated by their "superiors" or in their divorce cases. I represented without charge 1130 arrested pro-lifers and any arrested NRA members referred to me without charge.

Any of us may wind up in their crosshairs. Neither you nor I can control that. The best weapon against that is the scrupulous application of due process of law and the proper judicial resolution of the crimes they have committed.

We CAN take responsibility for our own morality and NOT justify targeting the innocent wives and children of others. To justify targeting them would be to join in the guilt of the very Nazis you referenced.

Revenge is a dish best served cold according to an ancient proverb. The slow and somewhat unsatisfyingly non-dramatic grinding of the wheels of justice creates more permanent solutions. See Hilary's E-Mails. We can posture all we want with meager results but, if the justice system worked properly, she would be indicted, tried, convicted and sewn into an orange jumpsuit for the rest of her life. Too bad they did not get her forty years ago.