Posted on 01/16/2016 7:59:19 PM PST by UMCRevMom@aol.com
Of course you’re right, but God isn’t running for office. So inevitably, the ballet choice is a matter of tradition.
It matters more right here on FR. It bills itself as premiere “Conservative” website. We might just want to recognize in passing that this is tied to a greater context in a way we may not realize and with implications we may not embrace. There is no One True Conservativism and knowing this should get us going into a vector of details when comparing the “conservatism” of position or candidate A vs. that of B.
Godliness is, I believe, the implied goal of Conservatism the way we understand it here. Would it be too nervy to change FR’s billing to a premiere “Godly” website? I’m not Jim Rob. He gets to manage it. I won’t be a bug about it unless the opportunity opens up. I want to play nice. But I want to be a gadfly for better accuracy, better opportunity for blessings... that kind of thing.
RE: God isn’t running for office
To your point, FR is practically a Godly website in terms of devotion — save our atheistic FRiends devoted to abstract ideals.
Regarding my point of God not being on the ballot, the choice concerns the popular differences between the two parties — neither party offering any redeeming qualities.
If one’s family was raised to distrust Republicans, I see no reason why the distrust should stop. In kind, there’s plenty to distrust regarding Democrats. I’m not picking sides, but only describing the absence of a clear path where one might be inspired to depart from family tradition.
‘Lawrence Vladimir Tribe? Seriously?’
It doesn’t matter who the heck Tribe is. I loathe Tribe too, but until Cruz takes him on in a serious way to discredit his argument, Tribe will continue to encourage Establishment republicans to backstab him.
Been a chess game all along, but too many Cruz supporters have attempted to spin rather than study the chess board.
What’s the point in using ‘spin’ here on the forum? We don’t have millions of people reading our every word. Our influence is more like a pyramid that magnifies through friends-of-FRiends. And spin ‘don’t cut it’ here.
God bless John Valentine and others like him for supporting Cruz the RIGHT way.
I did not mean trick anyone into thinking that I was quoting Valentine. Frankly, I don’t know where to quote the brilliant scholar yet. His best Latin is Greek to me.
Professor Laurence Tribe:
“The funny thing is, that the kind of guy Cruz is, he’s always been this way. When he was my student he was this way. He’s always said the Constitution always means the same thing that it meant when it was adopted. That’s why he made this funny joke to Trump, you know, saying, the Constitution didn’t change since last September. Well, he thinks it didn’t change since 1788 when it comes to gays and, you know, women and other things. But when it comes to his own ambition, he’s suddenly becomes what he accuses me of being, and it’s a pretty true accusation, a judicial activist. That’s not the guy he is normally.”
I read your quote. What Congress may or may not (the act was repealed five years later and replaced with another one that correctly deleted all references to natural born citizens) have said about the topic doesn’t mean very much, especially when there are encyclopedias of contemporaneous writings that far more clearly define what was meant by the term at the time. The point however is that it’s all speculation until the SCOTUS rules on it.
You are right. The herd is following the "citizen-at-birth = NBC" method of analysis like it was a stack of hundred dollar bills.
‘The point however is that it’s all speculation until the SCOTUS rules on it.’
Actually, the political turmoil is also serious. People don’t respect the courts anymore.
Quarter of Republicans think Cruz’s birthplace disqualifies him for president: poll
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3383942/posts
The ‘G’ OP has found a way to sabotage us. Cruz gets sympathy now, and after the primary, they have a contingency plan to pull the rug out from under him. In the meantime, Trump and Cruz supporters slug it out viciously. While Majority Leader Mc-Conman laughs.
25% is a big chunk of the voter pool, but not enough to lose him the primary.
Cruz gets sympathy-support. Only 1/4 of republicans think he’s not qualified. If this becomes the single-issue of the primary, Cruz might well win the primary after both anti-establishment camps rip each other apart.
That is chump-change compared to Phase Two.
After the primary, that would be a BIPARTIZAN majority. If people thought we Obama-Birthers were kooks, wait until the New Black Panthers and radical-left college students become Cruz-birthers!
I don’t think this is at all fair to Cruz, but until he challenges Professor Laurence Tribe to a debate, Trump and Cruz supporters are locked in a cage fight of the ‘G’ OP’s making.
McConnell: No, Senate won’t pass resolution affirming Cruz’s eligibility like it did for McCain
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3382813/posts
Why can Mc-Conman do this? Because he has a revered creep — Professor Laurence Tribe, undermining Cruz [regarding natural born status].
Tribe is a creep, Mc-Conman is a creep, and they flock together. The ‘G’ OP would rather lose than let Cruz OR Trump win. And those hypocrites will sabotage either of them at the first opportunity.
So, unless Cruz can turn this around, it’s ‘checkmate’. If he wins the nomination, he could lose the race over this one issue alone due to a hypocritical double-standard [in natural born status]. I’ll get into that double standard in the next post. It’s not good for Cruz, but please don’t kill the messenger.
In the above post, Mc-Conman’s Senate had backed up McStain’s natural born status. But more importantly — I don’t think there’s a single Establishment senator who was an Obama-birther. But McConnell’s refusal to back up Cruz the way he did McCain? Telling. Throwing Cruz under the bus. Sick, hypicrital. EVIL.
But ...
Based on research by Greetings Puny Humans, according to original intent neither Obama nor Cruz are qualified.
Hypocritical in light of Obama? You bet. But the Ruling Class really doesn’t care.
And since Chief ‘Just-us’ Roberts acts like he’s being blackmailed, that makes me uncomfortable with Cruz as our nominee.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3383942/posts?page=122#122
Copy of the post ...
[quote]
The first from the law of nations, which requires the child to be born to 2 citizen parents and on American land. The second under British Common Law, as seen in Blackstone’s commentaries, which, though it removes the requirement of being born in the US, transmits the ‘natural born’ status through the father, not the mother.
Hence why a couple of the liberal scholars keep saying ‘under an Originalist view, Cruz would not be eligible,’ because that’s exactly true. A renowned originalist constitutional scholar (frequently cited by the supreme court) even said the same thing: ‘Cruz is not eligible.’
[unquote — post by Greetings Puny Humans]
But there IS a solution to unite us. [Coming up.]
!!!!!!!!
SOLUTION ...
!!!!!!!!
AZ State Rep Calls For Constitutional Convention On Cruz Birth Issue
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3384579/posts
Further down I suggested a modest constitutional amendment [easier and, with rapid communications, possible with the speed of text networking ...]
Amend to have English-speaking parents with Canadian citizenship also help qualify natural born status. Why not? It’s not some radical Islamo-nut nation like Indonesia after all. Even Quebec is not so bad either.
Cruz should not turn too openly for such a process. It would make him look weak. But this is a good way to flush out who wants to use rules and process to disqualify him.
Actually, according to that poll, There’s another nearly 30% in the “don’t know” category (the only correct choice by the way). So the majority of Republicans don’t see him as eligible at present.
Good point.
But Republican belief in his eligibility will solidify when Cruz wins a lawsuit. But that would only make the issue fester. The democrats and leftists would then tag-team with the Establishment Republicans to undermine Cruz. Ugly.
Solution needed. Solution offered above.
FRegards ....
http://digitalcommons.law.umaryland.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2068&context=mlr
[Maryland law review]
SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS
My study of this 180 year enigma leads me to the following conclusions.
1. The reference to “natural-born” in the presidential qualifica- tion clause must be considered in the light of the English usage, well
known to the Framers of the Constitution. The English common law,
particularly as it had been declared or modified by statute, accorded
full status as natural-born subjects to persons born abroad to British
subjects.
2. Although the evidence of intent is slender, it seems likely that
the natural-born qualification was intended only to exclude those who
were not born American citizens, but acquired citizenship by naturalization.
The Framers were well aware of the need to assure full citizenship
rights to the children born to American citizens in foreign countries.
Their English forebears had made certain that the rights of
such children were protected, and it is hardly likely that the Framers
intended to deal less generously with their own children. The evidence,
although not overwhelming, unquestionably points in the direction
of such generosity.
3. This gloss of prior history and usage is not dulled, I believe,
by the Naturalization Act of 1790 or by the fourteenth amendment.
The 1790 act, enacted soon after the Constitutional Convention, recog- nized such persons as natural-born citizens. The fourteenth amendment,
adopted primarily to confirm the full citizenship denied to Negroes
by the Dred Scott decision, did not refer to “natural-born” citizens, did
not purport to limit or define the presidential qualification clause ofthe Constitution, and did not, in my estimation, bar a construction of
that clause to include children born abroad to American parents.
4. Nor is such a construction foreclosed by questionable dicta in
United States v. Wong Kim Ark and other Supreme Court decisions.
These dicta are not addressed to the presidential qualification clause
and cannot control its construction.
Having endorsed these conclusions, I must concede that the picture
is clouded by elements of doubt. These doubts will unquestionably persist
until they are eliminated by a constitutional amendment, a definitive
judicial decision, or the election and accession of a President who
was “natural-born” outside the United States.241
The passion of St. Theodore?
... he gives the impression that Obama would be an automatic citizen also if he were born overseas - ...
**********************************************
You’re right. Stanley Ann was impregnated by a Kenyan who was already married. When she birthed BHO, she had not met the requirements for age and residence in the US to pass on US citizenship. Regardless, when they moved to Indonesia they had to be Indo citizens only, giving up any prior citizenship. ...So, doesn’t matter if Obama was born in Kenya or Hawaii...he forfeited any claim to US citizenship. That’s why his records are all sealed (by what authority?).
What I would like to know is if the guys pursuing Cruz were this vocal in opposing Obama?
NB... Your #100 posting was excellent.
Seems this Prof. Tribe may have been put down and embarrassed in some class by student Cruz.
That’s a sad problem to me, if someone can let himself be more defined by what he “ain’t” than what he “is.”
This is something that I hope a gospel sweep of America would remedy. Believe in something positive. In the current state of affairs the GOP is ailing close to death, but the glimmer of faith in it won’t quite let it die and is even still palpable when approached. The Democrats — there are private pockets of faith e.g. the famous Kim Davis, but those came from tradition. The national party is no longer permeated by any kind of gospel as far as I can see, or it’s like a minuscule spark in a ton of ash. Caesar was never fuel for gospel fire and Democrats are Caesar first people.
We need something that says to all of them, find that spark and get rid of what is dampening it and blow it back into a flame.
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