Posted on 01/16/2016 10:43:21 AM PST by TBBT
If you were here when I joined you would not need to ask who I supported and did vote for.
When you have been here a little longer you will probably figure out that there are plenty of trolls who come here to spread lies and influence conservatives negatively in a number of ways.
Most here on Free Republic support Cruz, Trump or both. I am for either. While I think Cruz is the most reliable conservative based on his track record and ratings with organizations who track such things, I am willing to support either.
I don’t like to see either of these candidates bashed on this conservative forum. And I become very skeptical when such comments are coming from people who do not have much of a track record around here.
But glad to know we are on the same team regardless of whether we see eye to eye on some issues. I will continue to draw attention to the length of time some have been on this forum so that other Freepers can simply be aware. Not trying to run off a true conservative which I will presume you are, but I do want to flag any trolls. It may bother you now, but later you find yourself pointing out the same thing.
You’re going too fast
An excellent proxy for intelligence is income or wealth. How much is Cruz worth (excluding Goldman Sachs “loans”)? I know this may not be completely fair because Trump has worked n the private sector and Cruz has spent most of his time on the government dole.
“The “de Vattel definition†of “natural-born citizen “did not exist at the time the Constitution was framed.”
The following provides a few of the many pieces of evidence that Vattel’s book, Law of Nations, was procured in French and later in English by the authors of the Constitution in 1775 and afterwards, which is long before the drafting of the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, and Constitution. It also falsifies your nonsensical claims none of the authors of the Constitution were capable of reading French, the international language of diplomacy in the 18th Century. The Founding Fathers also left us a written record of how they actually consulted and used Vattel’s Law of Nations, which again establishes in their own words how you are propagating a pack of commonly used lies. See:
If it was not Blackstone who they relied on for defining the term Natural Born Citizen, then the only remaining source is from Vattel. Many of these detractors say we are reaching to extremes to use Vattel, as the source of a Natural Born Citizen clause. Some of there arguments are that the Law of Nations is a obscure mention to an idea, found in Article I, Section 8. What they fail to mention that this phrase is capitalized, if it was an inference to a general idea, it would not have been capitalized. School children know well the rules of capitalization, and the use of the capitalized Law of Nations would indeed make it uses consistent with a title of a publication. Let us take this and consider if indeed Vattel was a source of inspiration for the Founding Fathers and the Framers of our Constitution. The question we need to understand is were the founding fathers truly influenced by Vattel, or not.
The answer to this lies with none other than Thomas Jefferson, who penned Virginia’s Citizenship statue in 1779, “Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that all white persons born within the territory of this commonwealth and all who have resided therein two years next before the passing of this act, and all who shall hereafter migrate into the same; and shall before any court of record give satisfactory proof by their own oath or affirmation, that they intend to reside therein, and moreover shall give assurance of fidelity to the commonwealth; and all infants wheresoever born, whose father, if living, or otherwise, whose mother was, a citizen at the time of their birth, or who migrate hither, their father, if living, or otherwise their mother becoming a citizen, or who migrate hither without father or mother, shall be deemed citizens of this commonwealth, until they relinquish that character in manner as herein after expressed: And all others not being citizens of any the United States of America, shall be deemed aliens.†As can be seen Jefferson is equating citizenship of the child to that of the parents, and not the land.
For further proof on the question of Vattel’s influence we only need to look at Benjamin Franklin. In 1775, he observed, the importance of the Law of Nations, on the Founding Fathers and he then ordered 3 copies of the latest editions. The Library Company of Philadelphia which holds one of the three copies, lists the 1775 reference to this book, as “Le droit des gens,†from the publishing house of Chez E. van Harrevelt in Amsterdam, Holland, with a personal note to Franklin from the editor of this edition, C.G.F. Dumas. The fact that this particular volume that Franklin ordered is in French is significant, for at that time French was considered by the “family of nations†to be the diplomatic language, and the 1775 edition was considered the most exact reference of Vattel’s Law of Nations.
There is no doubt that the Founding Fathers did not exclusively use the English translation, but relied upon the French original. On December 9th of 1775, Franklin wrote to Vattel’s editor, C.G.F. Dumas, “ I am much obliged by the kind present you have made us of your edition of Vattel. It came to us in good season, when the circumstances of a rising state make it necessary frequently to consult the Law of Nations. has been continually in the hands of the members of our congress, now sitting. Accordingly, that copy which I kept has been continually in the hands of the members of our congress, now sitting, who are much pleased with your notes and preface, and have entertained a high and just esteem for their author.â€
Samuel Adams in 1772 wrote, “Vattel tells us plainly and without hesitation, that `the supreme legislative cannot change the constitution†Then in 1773 during a debate with the Colonial Governor of Massachusetts, John Adams quoted Vattel that the parliament does not have the power to change the constitution. John Adams as so taken by the clear logic of Vattel that he wrote in his diary, “The Idea of M. de Vattel indeed, scowling and frowning, haunted me.†These arguments were what inspired the clause that dictates how the Constitution is amended. The Framers left no doubt as to who had the right to amend the constitution, the Nation, (that is the individual States and the people) or Legislature (which is the federal government.)
In the Federalist Papers number 78, Alexander Hamilton also echoed Vattel, and both of the Adams, when he wrote, “fundamental principle of republican government, which admits the right of the people to alter or abolish the established Constitution, whenever they find it inconsistent with their happiness.” Then in 1784 Hamilton arguing for the defense in the case of Rutgers v. Waddington extensively used Vattel, quoting prolifically from the Law of Nations. The Judge James Duane in his ruling described the importance of the new republic abiding by the Law of Nations, and explained that the standard for the court would be Vattel. He ruled that the Statues passed under the color of English Common Law, must be interpreted from the standpoint of its consistency with the law of nations. This concept of Vattel lead to the creation of the Judiciary branch of our government to insure that Congress could never legislate away the provisions of the Constitution.
In 1794, then President Washington was faced with the first threat to his Neutrality Proclamation of that same year by the Ambassador of France, Citizen Edmond-Charles Genêt to honor their treaty and support France’s wars with England and Spain. In a very rare agreement both Jefferson and Hamilton using Vattel’s Law of Nations they were able to give Washington the international legitimacy not to commit the United States to war in 1793. Genêt wrote to Washington, “you bring forward aphorisms of Vattel, to justify or excuse infractions committed on positive treaties.”
http://www.birthers.org/USC/Vattel.html
You evidently either do not comprehend or will not comprehend. The term natural born was not in Vattels vocabulary and did not appear until 1797 in any translation anywhere.
Moreover his assertion that both parents must be citizens is clearly wrong since Obama has served for 8 years with every legal challenge tossed on the heap of history. And I agree with that actually.
Thirdly the courts look to the First Congress and British common law in that order when trying to divine the original intent of ambiguous phrasing in the constitution. They need look no further than the First Congress in this case which passed the first naturalization act and within that act defined Cruz as a natural citizen.
I don’t care that the act was later repealed and replaced by a subsequent Congress and neither would any Article III court. It does not matter because there is no record of that Congress rejecting the definition.
And finally the intent was to insure no divided loyalty by the CIC. We already have a CIC with divided loyalties while Cruz has unquestionable loyalty to the US Constitution.
I suppose people like you and Trump can convince some dullards and koolaid kids that Cruz is not eligible but to me you’re just full of it. The evidence is clear as to intent and Vattell’s opinions mean squat.
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Cruz owns Iowa, and California, so far.
But in the end, he’ll own most of them
This is the real Donald Trump!
Just wow! Considering he is using 9/11 pictures to attack Cruz. What a weasel!
is this how Cruz supporters think he will get into the WH? By insulting everyone? That is apparently the Trump way. He is the best name caller since Obama.
In Trust Fund Donnie’s defense, maintaining a fleet of “model” ex-wives is pretty costly.
Hank
“he’ll own most of them”
Are you saying Ted is going to use his Goldman Sachs money to buy them?
The Supreme Law of the Land is the Constitution, the laws passed by Congress and the treaties ratified by the Senate and signed by the POTUS. Thats it. Unless, of course, you are a left wing idiot who thinks foreign law, philosopher kings and assorted other bs should control US law. Are you one of those living, breathing constitutional morons?
So if Vattel’s writings on dispositive in US Law, why is Obam POTUS? After all Vattel wrote that for a citizen to be native born he must be born of two citizens. So much for Swiaa philospohers.
Wow! Now I am convinced, Obama is not the POTUS signing all those executive orders.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof on application to any common law Court of record in any one of the States wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such Court that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law to support the Constitution of the United States, which Oath or Affirmation such Court shall administer, and the Clerk of such Court shall record such Application, and the proceedings thereon; and thereupon such person shall be considered as a Citizen of the United States. And the children of such person so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States: Provided also, that no person heretofore proscribed by any States, shall be admitted a citizen as aforesaid, except by an Act of the Legislature of the State in which such person was proscribed.
Uhoh. First Congress/Original Intent
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