Posted on 12/29/2015 1:23:15 PM PST by Responsibility2nd
It is an airsoft, not a pellet gun.
Chauncey pleeze....
Constance Hollinger took the initial 9-1-1 call from a man outside the Cudell Recreation Center who said that someone was pointing a gun that was “probably fake” at people.
The details of what Hollinger relayed to Mandl are not clear. At no point were the officers told that the gun was “probably fake” or that Tamir was a boy and not an adult.
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/01/cleveland_dispatcher_who_handl_1.html
Jim,
I’m going to disagree. The dispatch and the police blew this one BIG TIME. Someone should be going to jail.
First, listen to the actual, unedited 911 call:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epfXeDxftQA
There are some key takeaways from this audio:
1. The caller admits at least twice that the gun is probably a fake.
2. The caller indicates that this is probably a kid.
3. The caller indicates that this is occurring near the youth center, further bolstering that this is probably a kid.
4. The caller does not indicate that the kid is doing anything with the gun beyond “pointing it at people” and (maybe) “scaring the shit out of people.” Bear in mind that this last statement is ENTIRELY editorial in nature. How does he know the kid is scaring anyone? Did he ask? When you watch the surveillance video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSNbpvX1qYc), do you see people running off in terror? Do you see the kid attempting to commit any specific crime with the toy gun? You said he was waving it in people’s faces. I don’t necessarily see that in the video.
5. The caller describes other completely BENIGN actions by the kid. “He’s sitting on the swings now.” Does this sound like a dangerous felon who is ready to pop a cap in someone?
6. The caller does not seem particularly alarmed himself. This is not a “Oh God! Please help! Send someone NOW! We’re all going to die!” type call. This is more like a “Hey, you should send someone out here to put an end to this behavior that I find personally unacceptable. Also, as a hoplophobe, I find t-shirts with Stormtroopers on them offensive. Have people take those off, too.”
(OK - I stretched that last part.)
Next up, look at the surveillance video you provided. The police drive RIGHT UP on the kid. What kid of idiocy is that? Ask ANY cop you know to find out if that is a sound procedure and get back to me.
The news clip you provided demonstrates the most laughable part of the whole exchange, when the police chief says something like, “They ordered him to show his hands and drop the weapon. The young man pulled the weapon out and that’s when the officer fired.”
Uh...
How was he going to drop the weapon WITHOUT pulling it out? Any ideas on this one? Anyone?
It reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngCKt6_aFUQ
When you put all these things together, the dispatch and police utterly blew it. First of all, they should have approached the situation a little more cautiously instead of going in like bats out of hell. There should have been better communication as to the situation on the ground. This was cavalier all around and resulted in the death of a 12 year old who was screwing around with a toy gun - something I did NON-STOP at that age.
I’m reminded of a situation during my post 9-11 homeland security deployment. Our unit had a guy approach one of our gates waving a REAL loaded gun. He was attempting suicide by soldier. The troops on the ground quickly assessed the man’s demeanor with the weapon - brandishing, but not firing - and held their fire. They deescalated the situation and the man was taken into custody unharmed. I wasn’t on the gate when that happened, but I still remember all the commendations about how bravely the soldiers had acted. How smart they had been and what admirable situational awareness they possessed for recognizing that the man was trying to get shot, not actually shoot anyone himself.
Finally, before you make this about any of the other thugs, like Michael Brown, who rightly deserved to be shot, this isn’t about them. This is about a 12 year old. Someone who isn’t even in his teens. Someone who probably doesn’t know how to conduct himself properly when confronted by police in such a situation. Someone who was doing something 12 year olds used top do regularly - play with a toy gun. I’m not certain this kid had malice. Sure - the black community is screwed up in many ways, and they have problems promoting a thug culture - but I’m not going to justify this shooting.
Should the cops get indicted? Maybe. Why? Because if my kids came in the house and said, “Daddy - there is a man outside waving a gun in our faces and scaring us,” and I went outside and shot some 12 year old kid with a toy gun, I would be indicted WITHOUT A DOUBT. Manslaughter, at least. Should the cops end up going to jail? Probably not. Should the 911 dispatcher go to jail? Probably. The failure to relay critical information cost this boy his life.
That’s my stance and I’m sticking to it. I don’t think it’s particularly ignorant or offensive.
I’m sure you’ll all have some really witty responses about shooting guns out of hands and all. Can’t wait.
Thanks.
See post #165.
Thank you for that story. I needed that, because I’m getting truly hostile.
Nonsense. Tamir Rice was a nasty little thug practicing on strangers in the park. The 911 operator did not relay the fact that his gun was likely fake to the officers. Should she have taken the word of a 911 caller who might not know a real .45 from a toilet seat? And, risked the officers lives. Don’t be stupid. If she had done that and two officers got shot she would have been crucified.
He got what he deserved.
Wow. I bet you’re voting for Trump.
You also didn’t have a 911 system back then. ................... Nope, we had what they called “beat” cops assigned to the neighborhood. We addressed them as “Officer” Jones, Smith, Brown, Goldstein, Lucarelli, Reilly, Johnson, Washington, et.al. They had a call box, and a rapid response from a local patrol car, usually manned by two officers. There was no PC or non abuse back then, you messed with them and you got a billy stick rap. We, as kids knew who not to mess with.
Past experience dictates future expectations. Hoplophobia has nothing to do with this. What it is about is a society that has been subjected to thuggery cimmitted by feral urban blacks for decades. Face it, if you saw a black behaving the way “little” Tamir was acting and he even motioned at pulling what remotly looked like a real gun, or a knife, or whatever, you would have plugged him, too. Right or wrong, that’s just the way it is. Simple fact is that if blacks don’t want people treating them like they are all criminals they should clean up their culture and stop pointing fingers at whitey.
When my teenage sons heard about the boy the child shot with the airsoft gun, their first question was about the orange tip *because* it was a topic well discussed with them when they were younger. It was discussed a lot because one of them has a tendency to think he’s too smart by half far, far too much of the time. Every time one of these shootings happens, proper reaction to LEOs is discussed. Every. Time.
It’s the fools who don’t think America, regardless of color, sees these children’s/young adult’s deaths as senseless who need to open their eyes. These young persons’ families and culture failed them. Unless and until these failures are fixed there can be no improvement.
Your stance is particularly ignorant and stupid!
This is what passes as intelligent debate these days on FR. Sigh. What has happened to this site?
The cops may have reacted too quickly, the dispatcher may have not relaid critical information to the police and the child may not have looked like an adult since most 12 year old’s are 5'7’’ and 175 pounds!
Offensive, stupid and criminally ignorant. That is what your opinion is!
According to no fewer than three outside agencies including the OBCI and FBI the shooting was ‘consistent with the regulations and procedures governing the police use of force’ and was ‘justified by the circumstances of the situation’
So, having listened to the entire drama for the last year, I have concluded without a doubt that this situation, though tragic and certainly avoidable, was not criminal.
The prosecutor knew it, the FBI, OBCI, State Attorney General and the Grand Jury all agreed that their was no crime involved by the police or authorities and Tamir Rice was involved in a crime. One that caused him to lose his life through an unfortunate series of events.
It is tragic! Not every tragedy involving the police is a crime. Sometimes it is simply a tragedy.
Your post was both factually ignorant and stupid as it not only ‘stretched’ as you said, the facts in the situation. It read in several things that the police themselves would never have know about until after the fact. Some of them long after the fact.
As they say ‘hindsight is 20/20’ but that doesn’t excuse uninformed and ignorant Monday morning quarterbacking.
So, yes my response was intelligent debate based on your post.
Kids playing with gunz of any type (real or fake) away from home parental unit direct supervision is a BAD idea.
If in your own yard - might be bad idea depending on your neighbors.
Wow: I bet your’re voting for Hillary.
We have two jobs as parents:
1) Protect our kids from the world
2) Protect the world from our kids
You keep on believing that, as a CCW, you wouldn’t get indicted. Believing that the common man gets treated equally by the law demonstrates real ignorance. I can point to dozens of examples, the most obvious being Zimmerman. Here’s a guy who was clearly being physically attacked and he got indicted.
I’m not saying the cops should necessarily go to jail, but if you really believe you wouldn’t get indicted, you’ve got another thing coming.
The dispatcher was criminally negligent in relaying critical information and SHOULD go to jail. Her version of the story was basically a lie designed to create a confrontation.
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