National interest?? Oh you mean like our *own* lawless, violent out of control international border?
Posted on 11/24/2015 7:17:17 AM PST by Biggirl
President Vladimir Putin has accused Turkey of funding ISIS, and using its military to protect the terrorist organisation, after a Russian fighter jet was shot down near the Syrian border on Tuesday morning. The two-pilot Sukhoi Su-24 jet was shot down by F-16 fighter planes just after 9am this morning, after it violated Turkish airspace and ignored nearly a dozen warnings by the military, Ankara officials said.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Russians, Turks, Syrians, Daesh, Iran, the whole region except the Israeli’s and some of the Kurds are our enemies.
Turkey is a member of NATO. Erdogan was elected to office democratically by the Turkish people. Do you have a source for the assertion that he wants to "begin the caliphate with the center of it in Turkey"?
I am not supportive of Erdogan, but Turkey has a right to protect its sovereignty.
As far as allowing Putin to get away with crap he’s directing against us? Or his seizure of Crimea and going into Ukraine tell me, who has caused more world-wide destruction/instability Putin or the combo of Bush/mainly Obama with their excursions into Iraq, Egypt, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Syria, and cuddling up with Iran and Turkey I would have to say the US has caused more destabilization in the World than in other country in the World at this point.
So America is the problem? So we deserved the two bombings of the WTC, our two embassies in East Africa, the USS Cole, the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, Kobar Towers, etc.? Do we deserve these attacks? Are we supposed to absorb them without response?
If we had been serious under Bush in actually eradicating Islam we wouldn’t be in this mess right now. We would have wiped Saudi Arabia off the map 1st. And we would have never even considered electing someone with the name Barack Hussein Obama.
Wipe out Islam with 1.3 billion followers? You are madder than a March hare.
About four weeks ago the Russians buzzed our carrier, the USS Ronald Reagan, while conduction operations with the Korean navy. They were one nautical mile away and only 500 feet off the deck. The Russians have been aggressively shadowing US and NATO aircraft. They are the provocateurs. Turkey taught the Russians a hard lesson. I doubt they will get that close again. Message sent. Message received.
I also believe that the Russians violated Turkish territory because they’ve been routienly playing the same games in Eastern Europe. Ultimately, Turkey responded as they repeatedly said they would, and frankly there’s not a single damn thing the Russians will do about it.
Russian aircraft violated Turkish air space (again) while bombing ethnic Turkish villages in Syria. It shouldn’t be a surprise Turkey got fed up and punched Putin in the nose.
So, I guess that means Obama was right and Romney was wrong when Romney said Russia is an enemy we should worry about.
Always remember, Russia has nukes. That’s all they need to make a hell of a statement.
This thread is great. Lots of information. And no (lame) jokes being posted. This is FR at its best.
I know so little about the subject, I sure can’t comment on Putin and Turkey. But this thread is a place to learn— and an example of what FR can be once again if the constant joking will stop. A little humor is fine, but the comedians are trying to take over. I wonder sometimes if they are liberal plants just trying to wear everyone out. Many threads will have 50 joke attempts but only 3 or 4 informed posts.
Putin has been wiping Obama's face in cow dung for a long time. Of course Obama will do and say anything to discredit Putin. DC created ISIS, and Obama supports Turkey, who has now attacked those attacking radical ISIS.
I am not surprised one bit Obama is supporting terrorist and radical Muslims.
Btw, so you understand, I haven’t trusted a single word coming out of the U.S. politburo for years. Zip nothing. Their domestic and foreign policies have been a country killing disaster for the US, which has literally and intentionally looted the American treasure.
Anyone Obama supports or allies himself with, such as Turkey and ISIS, is suspect and questionable from my perspective.
If you believe all that, you’ll believe anything.
Is that a good thing? I am concerned about America. When Putin wins, America loses.
DC created ISIS,
Nonsense. I hold those animals responsible for their actions. We have a problem with radical Islam. ISIS is just another manifestation as is AQ, Boko Haram, Hamas, Abu Sayyaf, etc. Radical Muslim groups are all over the globe from the Philippines, India, Thailand, China, Russia, Europe, Africa, and the US.
Obama supports Turkey, who has now attacked those attacking radical ISIS
It is not only Obama who supports Turkey's actions. The Head of NATO supports it as do many other governments. The Pentagon supports the Turkish version of events.
Russia shot down a civilian airliner in the Ukraine and took over the Crimea. I have no sympathy for Putin. Russia is in Syria to defend his client, Assad. Iran is one of his partners in propping up this tyrant. There are no good guys in Syria.
What about France, the UK, our NATO allies, etc. You are confusing Obama with America. We have strategic national interests, which don't change with Presidents. Your hatred of Obama clouds what is at stake here. Putin is a bad guy. He is no friend of this country.
Once again, I do not support Obama’s pro-ISIS positions. And yes, those assholes in DC did create the biggest foreign policy debacles known to mankind, which spawned and created ISIS.
Btw, America loses not because of Putin but because American corrupt and deceitful leadership. Learn it.
National interest?? Oh you mean like our *own* lawless, violent out of control international border?
Turkey is a member of NATO. Erdogan was elected to office democratically by the Turkish people. Do you have a source for the assertion that he wants to "begin the caliphate with the center of it in Turkey"?I am not supportive of Erdogan, but Turkey has a right to protect its sovereignty.
Let's first stipulate that nothing discussed here really makes any difference at all. It is not much different than arguing over Football or Music taste.
Having said that, I think that saying: Erdogan was elected to office democratically by the Turkish people is ridiculous. It is leftist speak. It is verbatim what we heard about Hugo Chavez and Castro and the Sandinistas and countless other leftist slime. It was used to legitimatize the Taliban. More recently it is what Dumbo and Hillary say about The Moslem Brotherhood. And I guarantee that somewhere in the world, right this minute, someone is using that remark to legitimize Dumbo himself.
We certainly do not know any such thing as a fact. But even if it were a fact, that has never been the traditional American test of legitimacy. Rather, the question is whether this or that "ruler" is in our self-interest. I think he is not, as do many others around here. Furthermore, "< leftist du jour > was elected to office democratically by the < third world hellhole > people" is exactly what we must avoid going forward because the end result will be a legitimatized fundamentalist Islamic regime in every country they exist. Why? Because their sheeple, like our own sheeple, outnumber their rational people by orders of magnitude.
This should be obvious to all by now as we ourselves are standing on the precipice of Idiocracy right this very minute. Folks who really want to believe in the fantasy of majority rule are about to taste it for themselves here in the USA within very few coming elections when the parasites finally outvote the hosts. There's a movie out there called 'This Is The End'. Think of it as a sequel to the great 'Idiocracy'.
Those who want to use "democratically elected" as the benchmark for legitimacy should begin preparing for the death of Egypt and everywhere else. Those great monuments to early civilization, flawed as it was, survived thousands of years. But I see no way they, or us, can survive 'Democratic Islamicism'. Nor can we survive 'Democratic Socialism'. Once the "democratically elected" insurance policy is invoked, according to modern political correctness, it is time to shut down criticism and discussion.
Finally, there is a smidgen of naivete about Turkey going on in this thread. It has always been living on the razor's edge of toppling into the Islamic abyss, my entire lifetime it has been like this. They're the butt of more jokes than anyone except for Poland :-) Now, thanks to Obama probably helping this turd get "elected", this lackey's reckless shootdown and attempt to drag NATO in ( we cannot really rule out the possibility that Dumbo or Kerry whispered to the Turk to escalate this to change the subject from getting ISIS to getting Assad ), it is almost certainly going to have something occur there shortly, at least I hope so. Probably a coup, followed by the predictable labeling of the temporary military gov as a right-wing junta decried by the Western lefties. I believe that absent an overthrow we are worse off.
P.S. I'll warm up to Turkey when they give us back Constantinople. This would be a wonderful gesture of peace towards the West because as we all know, Islam is a religion of peace.
This thread is great. Lots of information. And no (lame) jokes being posted. This is FR at its best.I know so little about the subject, I sure can’t comment on Putin and Turkey. But this thread is a place to learn— and an example of what FR can be once again if the constant joking will stop. A little humor is fine, but the comedians are trying to take over. I wonder sometimes if they are liberal plants just trying to wear everyone out. Many threads will have 50 joke attempts but only 3 or 4 informed posts.
But don't let the jokes turn you off. It is a very stressful time on Planet Earth and people have many different ways of dealing with stress, and I happen to think that joking around is a fine medicine.
FReepers also happen to have some of the finest senses' of humor on Planet Earth.
“FReepers also happen to have some of the finest senses’ of humor on Planet Earth.”
I agree with you on that. Sometimes I have actually Laughed Out Loud while reading.
But you have to admit there has been a change in the past several years at FR. Many threads with nothing but jokes or sarcasm...and on serious topics where one is hoping to find informed comments.
As I said, a little humor is fine. In fact, it does help to cope with harsh realities. But too much is just too much, and it turns important threads into post after post of just silly stuff.
I don’t think Russia is “scared” of Turkey, I am simply saying Russia can’t do much about the shootdown of their Fencer bomber by the Turks. Turkey is not afraid of Russia either. One thing that will likely result from this is that Russian warplanes will probably think twice about violating Turkey’s airspace in the future. And that was Turkey’s immediate goal, so they will get the best of Russia this time around.
Radical Islam created ISIS. Who created AQ? Or Boko Haram? You are part of the blame America crowd. Disgusting.
Our border should have been secured decades ago. Bush 43 was almost as bad as Obama when it comes to illegal aliens and border control.
Comparing elections in Turkey to those held in Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua is just pure nonsense. It is apples and oranges. So you believe that Obama was not elected legally or legitimately twice? Denial just ain't a river in Egypt.
Why? Because their sheeple, like our own sheeple, outnumber their rational people by orders of magnitude.
You get the government you deserve.
Finally, there is a smidgen of naivete about Turkey going on in this thread. It has always been living on the razor's edge of toppling into the Islamic abyss, my entire lifetime it has been like this.
I don't know how old you are, but that has not always been the case. The times I visited Turkey, it was quite secular. It is only fairly recently that it has descended in Islamic fundamentalism. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk brought Turkey into the modern world. My daughter's roomate in boarding school and college was from Turkey. She is currently running her father's business in Turkey at age 40.
P.S. I'll warm up to Turkey when they give us back Constantinople. This would be a wonderful gesture of peace towards the West because as we all know, Islam is a religion of peace.
You must be Greek.
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