[papertyger]

And I don’t know exactly the lineage that gets traced from Ishamel to the modern Arabs whether it is in the Bible or what. Just because Mohammod said he was descended from Ishmael doesn’t make it true

And your lack of knowledge doesn't make it false, either.

The Table of Nations in Genesis 10 gives ample reason to believe, generally speaking, the peoples of the Arabian Peninsula are indeed descended from Ismael.

As for the validity of his teaching; well that part of the world has never lacked for false prophets, which in turn says nothing to impeach the validity of true prophets.

[21twelve]

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-arabs-descendants-of-ishmael.htm

Thanks for your Nations thing from Genesis 10. It sounds like Cush and Shem populatated Arabia years and years before Abraham (and Ishmael) were ever around. And Ishmael went there and intermarried with them. As I said, I’m no expert. (I also get the Ismael/Isaac story confused with the earlier(?) story of Enoch(?) and Esau(?) where the mother tricks the blind husband with the fur coat and stuff in granting the first birth-right!)

Anyway - the following may shed some light on the subject (and has the supporting Bible verses).

An excerpt from the above site about the various territorial claims made by Islam.

The Arab Claim to Palestine because they are descendants of Ishmael:
By Robert Morey

The Arabs’ claim to the land of Israel rest entirely on three false assumptions:

1) All Arabs are the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael.

2) Ishmael and his descendants were included in the covenant God made with Abraham.

3) Since the Abrahamic convenant included the land of Israel, the Arabs have a legitimate claim to it.

Historical Facts that refute these Arab claims:

1) According to the Torah, when Abraham left Ur of the Chaldees, he went West to what is now called Israel (Gen. 12 ff.). He became a dweller in tents in that land. It was in Israel that God made a covenant with him for the land in which he was living at that time. It was in Israel that he fathered Isaac, Ishmael, and many other sons and daughters. Isaac was the only son of Abraham chosen by God to be the heir of the covenant. Abraham took Isaac to Mt. Moriah to be offered up as a sacrifice to God.

The Torah is contradicted by Qur’an at nearly every point. According to Surah 2:119-121, Abraham and Ishmael did not dwell in tents in Israel but in the city of Mecca in Arabia. Together they rebuilt the Kabah and placed the black stone in the wall. It was Abraham who started the tradition of an annual pilgrimage to Mecca, throwing stones at the devil, etc. Abraham took Ishmael (not Isaac) to nearby Mt. Mina to offer as a sacrifice to God.

2) Ishmael’s twelve sons were named Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah. (Gen. 12:11-16) They intermarried with the local population in North Arabia and produced several nomadic tribes know as the “Ishmaelites.”

3) It was prophesied in the Torah that Ishmael and his family would “live to the East of all his brothers.” (Gen. 16:12) “And they settled from Havilah to Shur which is east of Egypt as one goes toward Assyria.” (Gen 25:18) This broad area is the desert section East of Egypt in Northern Arabia toward the kingdom of the Assyrians.

4) The Ishmaelites are mentioned as a distinct tribe in the Assyrian records. They later intermarried with and were absorbed by the Midianites and other local tribes. In Gen. 37:25-28; 39:1, the Ishmaelites are called the Midianites and in Judges 8:22-24 cf. 7:1f, the Midianites are called the Ishmaelites. The identification cannot be made any stronger.

5) Arabia was already populated by the descendants of Cush and Shem long before Abraham or Ishmael were born (Gen. 10:7). Their cities and temples have been well documented by archeologists.

6) If all the Arab people descended from Ishmael as Muhammad claimed, where did all the original Arabs go? What happened to them? Who did Ishmael marry if the Arabs did not already exist? If Arabia was unpopulated, who built Mecca? Since he lived there, obviously it existed before he was born. The facts speak for themselves. The Arab people existed before, during, and after Ishmael started roaming the wilderness of North Arabia.

7) The descendants of Ishmael were scattered in Northern Arabia from the wilderness of Shur to the ancient city of Havilah. They were absorbed by the local tribes such as the Midianites (Gen. 37:25-28; 39:1; Judges 8:24). There is no historical or archeological evidence that Ishmael went south to Mecca and became the “Father” of the Arab race. Some modern Arab scholars admit that before Muhammad, Qahtan was said to be the “Father” of the Arab people, not Ishmael.

8) The Abrahamic Covenant was given only to Isaac and to his descendants. Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham were explicitly excluded by God from having any part of the covenant made with Abraham. (Gen. 18:18-21)

Therefore the descendants of Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham do not have any claim to the land of Israel because they are not included in the covenant God made with Abraham. Only the Jews have any claim to the land of Israel.