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To: Katya
You missed my point.... the integrated muslims are not readily recognized.

And you missed MY point. THERE ARE no integrated muslims in France. Certainly not in Paris!

I could give you a ton of examples, but it would take too long.

Being muslim, anywhere, and integrated, is a contradiction in terms.

You really haven't made a good study of islam, historic and contemporary, have you.

112 posted on 11/16/2015 9:18:18 AM PST by publius911 (Pissed?? You have NO idea!)
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To: publius911
My first trip to Paris was in 1969. I met with my future wife's family, which was scattered around France and Spain.

I have always been an avid amateur photographer. On my 1973 trip to Paris, I walked the entire city, and after visiting the Sorbonne area, I found myself in a neighborhood plastered with dozens of "Nixon go Home!" spray painted signs of buildings and walls, and tons of Arabic graffiti. I had wandered into the biggest muslim neighborhood in Paris. When I got home my bother-in-law actually blanched when I showed him the dozens of photographs of the place.

A few years later, I was walking with him from the Place de la Concorde to the Tour Eiffel when I spotted an armored vehicle, surrounded by baklava-wearing military clad all in black military types and I said "Cool, I want to go over and take some pics. They were all toting small submachine guns and wired for sound.

MY BIL jumped on me and yanked me back, telling me in Spanish, our only common language at the time, "Don't f*** with those guys! They shoot first and ask questions later!"

That was my introduction to the GIGN.*

"The GIGN, or in English the National Gendarmerie Intervention Group, is France's premier military counter-terror and hostage rescue unit, originally formed in 1973 following the hostage crisis in Munich. GIGN belongs to a part of the French military known as the National Gendarmerie, which has no precise counterpart in the military branches here in the United States.

"With roots going back to the Middle Ages, the National Gendarmerie is a force focused primarily on internal security and order. Its present form is something akin to a militarized version of America's Department of Homeland Security, with some additional FBI-like responsibilities, as well as some of the roles of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police."

115 posted on 11/16/2015 9:44:39 AM PST by publius911 (Pissed?? You have NO idea!)
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To: publius911

I have spent a bit of time in France, most recently two months ago... I disagree. The same goes for many other European countries... there are muslims whom I could not distinguish from other nationals.
Unless your point is that a “real” muslim needs to be quite orthodox or basically a fundamentalist.

Particularly those who are second or third generation... of course it is also “class” driven. The educated often give their children first names that are french, Italian or German depending on which country they live. The girls certainly do not wear hijab and many are barely religious, very liberal,as is most of Europe.


118 posted on 11/17/2015 6:42:17 AM PST by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
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