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To: TBP; angryoldfatman; Bob434; Pete from Shawnee Mission
I have read several Biblical scholar/analysts who are strongly credentialed and knowledgeable in the field. They are very clear about the transcription errors, the edits, the editorial choices in translation, and the simple contradictions — and on the dating.

That means nothing - and highlights a most curious phenomenon of willful ignorance that regularly occurs in Biblical studies. That is, one will wax on about the "fallibility" of the biblical writers while in the same breath accept without question the supposed infallibility of the so-called "experts" he or she has hand-picked to support the view they have chosen to believe.

Scholars have their biases, and unfortunately those prejudices are especially evident in biblical studies, where there is so much at stake. Those who reject biblical truth are not likely to teach and write in support of those truths - and in fact will spend their entire career attempting to tear down the authority of the Bible.

How many countless college students have had their faith undermined in "literature of the Bible" courses at secular universities by unbelieving professors who sowed seeds of doubt in their impressionable minds? After all, he or she is the professor - the expert - and surely they know what they are talking about?

In our society we have replaced the infallibility of Holy Scripture with the infallibility of the new Priestly Class: a secular and skeptic academia.

These are most serious matters: "Let not many among you become teachers, for they will receive a double judgment," and "Woe to anyone who leads these little ones astray."

TBP, knowingly or unknowingly, was attempting to do just that on this forum.

Just one more point worth mentioning: TBP makes much of the theory that the NT was written in Aramaic, then translated into Greek. Even accepting that as true would undermine his argument for the late date of the NT, for if we have an extant Greek NT fragment dating from around the end of C1 or early C2 - then that MS would of necessity be a translation of an EARLIER Aramaic MS. Thus we have pushed back the authorship of the NT to sometime in the first century - when there would still be witnesses alive who would certainly have pointed out any falsehoods or mistakes in the texts.

Full disclosure: I did not mean to present myself as an "expert" in this field, but rather felt an obligation to weigh in because of my training and experience to correct a blatant misrepresentation of the nature of the New Testament texts.

I have, in fact, long-ago shifted my attention to other areas of theology, as in my most recent book: The Paranormal Conspiracy - the Truth about Ghosts, Aliens and Mysterious Beings. Even so, the defense of the full authority of the Bible is something which is near and dear to my heart.

58 posted on 11/08/2015 6:50:44 AM PST by tjd1454
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To: tjd1454
Quote: "Just one more point worth mentioning: TBP makes much of the theory that the NT was written in Aramaic, then translated into Greek. Even accepting that as true would undermine his argument for the late date of the NT..."

great point!

61 posted on 11/08/2015 9:54:54 AM PST by jimmyray
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To: tjd1454

[[That means nothing - and highlights a most curious phenomenon of willful ignorance that regularly occurs in Biblical studies. That is, one will wax on about the “fallibility” of the biblical writers while in the same breath accept without question the supposed infallibility of the so-called “experts” he or she has hand-picked to support the view they have chosen to believe.]]

That’s what I was trying to get at only you said it better than I

[[Those who reject biblical truth are not likely to teach and write in support of those truths]]

Exactly- like I suggested, IF someone really wants to get to know truth, they must meet truth and not rely on their own understanding until truth has had a chance to show them the error of their understanding. To put our faith in our own fallible finite understanding is not a very good wager especially when we choose not to participate experientially in that which we criticize

For those demanding proof that God is real before they bleeive, let me just give a simple analogy why asking for proof isn’t very wise- this analogy runs along the line of Pascal’s wager, but puts it into what I think is a readily graspable scene

Suppose someone lived isolated on a mountain somewhere, and some folks had seen him, wrote about him, witnessed Him accomplish things. They inturn told others that this man exists, but those who haven’t seen him refuse to believe it- It would be silly for the unbelievers to suggest the man didn’t exist simply because they refused to go see the fella for themselves.

But let’s take it a step further, let’s suppose the isolated man doesn’t want ot be seen or spoken to, and so won’t reveal his physical presence, or utter audible words to hear. It would still be silly to suggest he doesn’t exist simply because he won’t meet our demand for physical revelation.

Further still- Suppose this man declares that he WILL reveal himself, but only to those who take a leap of faith and believe He exists

Now let’s suppose that belief in this man on the mountain was the only way through which we could see heaven when we die. Would it be wise to reject that he is real simply because he won’t meet our demands of revelation first before faith? When the stakes are so high- eternity in heaven or eternity in hell- would it not be wise to do as the man asks in order to find out if he rally exists?

there are many ways in which God Does reveal Himself when we seek Him- Ways which are not open to those who refuse to believe but who demand that God listen to their demands before they believe

Bottom line is- To put our eternal destiny I n the hands of those who refuse to meet with God, and who wish only to tear His word apart, and who glom onto moot ‘proofs’ which have been refuted over and over again, is not a very wise thing to do- especially given the fact that God proves His word through prophecy, and through personal experience to so many billions of people all down through the ages- He proves His existence in personal ways , and the closer we get to Him, them ore He proves His existence to us in ways that are personal to us ad unique to us. It might be a word of advice from His word that we need at a specific moment, it might be guidance that obviously is led by Him, it might be answers that open doors that could only be opened by Him- on and on it goes- personal experiences that those on the outside are not privy to.

[[and in fact will spend their entire career attempting to tear down the authority of the Bible.]]

A very unwise position to take, but one that many undertake unfortunately. preferring the fallible biases of people hell bent on denying the word of God. Proverbs 3:5-6 “Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct your paths.”

Matthew 18:2-4New International Version (NIV)

2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Many Scoff at these verses thinking only the gullible and ignorant are deluded into thinking they’ve found something- however, once one does Find God in humility, simply by Trusting in Him- Fin Him to be true and His word to be true, and their eyes are opened to the truth in such a way as to say “It was right there all along, why didn’t I see it?”


62 posted on 11/08/2015 10:10:37 AM PST by Bob434
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To: tjd1454

No one is saying that the experts are infallible. However, they have demonstrated strong evidence, using actual manuscripts, to prove their points. The documents and the history support their claims.


65 posted on 11/08/2015 12:56:51 PM PST by TBP (with the wrong hand)
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