CNBC Disaster Debate: Full Republican Debate Grades

The Daily Wire ^ | 10/28/2015 | Ben Shapiro

[DoughtyOne]

Carry_Okie, it seems to me that some folks think it’s okay to trash Trump as if he is the anti-Christ because they can’t trust him, but it’s okay for other guys to lie to us and do exactly opposite of what they have told us, and it doesn’t matter.

What is the Cruz policy on H1-B visas? Is it a Conservative one? We hear reports of H1-B visa problems a few times a month here. We know they are being gamed and hundreds or more of our citizens are training their H1-B replacements, and are being let go. Cruz wants to increase the H1-B visas by 200%. How is supporting that Conservative?

Cruz told us he was against Iran getting nuclear weapons. Then he joined John McCain, Mitch McConnell, and just about the entire Leftist Republican body of the U. S. Senate, to vote for the Corker bill, making it easier to pass Obama’s Iran deal. Was that Conservative? It was a lie and helped Iran. That was a two-fer.

Cruz told us he was against the TPP trade bill. Then he voted for the TPA bill, which was needed to help enable the TPP legislation. Was that Conservative? It was another lie.

Cruz’s immigration policy includes no wall, register in place, and start the process toward citizenship after a period of time. Is that Conservative?

If I wanted, I could play the go back and look at Ted Cruz’s actions over time with a magnifying glass and come up with more. Is that what we want to spend our time doing?

With the anti-Trump folks it is.

With the Trump folks, it isn’t.

You tell me which group is supporting the advancement of Conservatism more these days?

Trump, for all his warts, is out talking to tens of thousands of people selling the Reagan doctrine. A whole new generation of people are being introduced to concepts of smaller government, more community based control over education. He’s trashing Common Core.

Be it the national debt, or borders, our military, or veterans, illegal immigration, education... and more, Trump is hawking Conservative ideals to ten or twenty times as many people as Ted Cruz is. The thanks he gets is for people who are enthralled with Cruz even though he can’t get the nomination, is to trash the only guy who at least says he agrees with us.

Bush doesn’t. Carson doesn’t. Fiorina Deosn’t. Rubio doesn’t. Even Cruz doesn’t on some issues.

So here were are...

I mention I think it will be hard to get Cruz past the Democrats, Independents, and Moderate Republicans. We haven’t been able to do it for 32 years. That flies right over the head of Cruz supporters rushing over to Trump threads to warn everyone.

If Trump is knocked out, Ted Cruz will be crushed. We will wind up the Carson, Rubio, or Fiorina.

Trump could have run on the Democrat ticket and waged a campaign against three people.

He chose to adopt our principles, the principles of Reagan and go up against 16 others.

Is Trump perfect? No. Is Cruz? Definitely not! Are any of the rest? Not even close...

You guys may be able to cast Trump aside. If you do, you will have tossed the only chance we’ve had in 32 years, and more than likely for the next 32.

Who will try to emulate Trump’s efforts after this, if every Conservative is going to reject the guy hawking their views to the public in ways no other Candidate can?

I wish bad luck to those trying to destroy Trump. If they succeed, they’ll soon know why.

The next year will make or break this nation.

Trump is not the threat. Well meaning Conservatives are.

Look around and realize who is against Trump.

Don’t take my word for it. Look around.

Are those your friends?

[xzins]

Do you have some evidence of illegals working in some Trump owned facility that traces back to Trump?

Or are you hypothesizing based on the numbers employed across his properties?

[KansasGirl]

Glad I spent the evening watching baseball.

[Carry_Okie]

Do you have some evidence of illegals working in some Trump owned facility that traces back to Trump?

There was a WaPo article on it some time back. Do you doubt that he has them? He hasn't said a word about it, nor has he ever been asked about it in a debate. If the media were truly out to get him, don't you think they'd have posed that question and run more of those stories???

[TontoKowalski]

The amount of documentation required to get any job at a reputable company, one that wants to steer clear of the courts, is pretty extensive.

I can't imagine that Trump business would break the law by knowingly hiring illegal aliens.

I suppose someone could bring up a situation in which an applicant had really good forged documentation, but I promise you that the post-911 requirements for hiring are very rigid.

[Carry_Okie]

Carry_Okie, it seems to me that some folks think it’s okay to trash Trump as if he is the anti-Christ because they can’t trust him, but it’s okay for other guys to lie to us and do exactly opposite of what they have told us, and it doesn’t matter.

When did I do that? You'd better start with some other premise or my respect for you is over.

I know very well Cruz' position on H1-B visas. It's one of three reasons why I have not endorsed him, the other two being TPA and the Corker bill.

[xzins]

Yes, I doubt that he has them.

I’d need credible evidence. So far, I’ve not seen any, and the Good Lord knows the media would be all over it if he did have any.

[xzins]

Like I said, I can see some local manager getting his palmed greased and making a bad decision, but I can’t imagine a corporation having that as a policy, spoken or unspoken. It’s crazy. And especially if running for president at the same time and making illegal immigration your center issue. That would be suicide.

[Carry_Okie]

I’d need credible evidence. So far, I’ve not seen any, and the Good Lord knows the media would be all over it if he did have any.

He's a media creation. He makes them lots of money. He characterizes business and conservatism as a bunch of simplistic and bigoted boors. They love him.

[xzins]

I think he’s there because he is an extremely successful businessman. That has nothing to do with the media.

[Carry_Okie]

I think he’s there because he is an extremely successful businessman.

Oh BS. He's never invented anything, nor is he a net producer. The world isn't wealthier because of the casinos he built or the golf courses he bought. His deals are a string of broken promises to pay his creditors and suppliers. About the only "good" thing I can anticipate from a Trump presidency is that he'd likely stiff our foreign creditors in return for having defended them for a century.

[DoughtyOne]

I don't think of Obama as the anti-Christ, but I do think he is the closest thing we've seen to it. He is anti-Christian, and pro the religion (CULT) of the anti-Christ, Islam.

Then you offered this up:

Trump is the "Republican" Barack Obama in that he lies his a$$ of with abandon, telling people what he thinks they want to hear at the moment.

I wouldn't compare Trump to Obama for anything. Obama is such a troubling individual, to compare someone to him in any way is way over the top. I think you know that.

How do you think it looked to me, to see you start off with, "Trump is the "Republican" Barack Obama..."?

You thought it was okay to compare in this manner. You did it to a guy I think of as on the verge of being the anti-Christ. It didn't sit well with me, and thus my comment.

I appolgize for offending you to the degree I obviously did.

What are the most important things right now?

I think they are love of country. Do you think Trump is lying about that?

Do you think he lies when he says he respects Christians?

Do you think he lies when he says he wants to build a wall, deport illegals, build up the military, help veterans, and a myriad of other things?

You simply classify all this as lies? Really?

They all lie to an extent. The only question is basically which liar do we vote for?

[xzins]

He does hotels, resorts, golf course, casinos, and other entertainment and rental type properties. You’ve never gone on vacation or stayed in a hotel?

It’s a huge segment of business. You seem to confine business to an object that can be purchased and kept.

Do you consider the food industry to be business?

[Carry_Okie]

I wouldn't compare Trump to Obama for anything. Obama is such a troubling individual, to compare someone to him in any way is way over the top. I think you know that.

Tough. That's what I think he is. Should you disagree with my prognostication ability compared to you, I have two words for you: Arnold Shwarzenegger.

I think they are love of country. Do you think Trump is lying about that?

Yes.

Do you think he lies when he says he respects Christians?

Yes. I think he doesn't know diddly about Christianity and really doesn't care that much, but then, 99% of Christians don't either.

Do you think he lies when he says he wants to build a wall, deport illegals, build up the military, help veterans, and a myriad of other things?

I think he knows the courts will stop the deportations and they won't happen without Congress, or he should. I think voluntary "deportation" will happen, with the inducement of reentering the country in weeks, after a bogus "vetting" process.

You simply classify all this as lies? Really?

Yup. The positions are contrary to those only a few years ago and contain weasel words that allow him room to screw his supporters. He's a deal maker all right.

They all lie to an extent. The only question is basically which liar do we vote for?

WE all lie to an extent, as our words are less than the Word of G-d. Hence, the comment is meaningless.

As to which, as I have said many times, I have not picked a candidate. I can say it will never be Trump. Ever. Nor do I have to vote for him in California, because my vote here is of no practical worth.

[Calpublican]

{”Its amazing, in less than two years, I have gone from a local REC member to a fire from my eyes hater of everything establishment.”}

Me too and I think we are not alone.

[Carry_Okie]

He does hotels, resorts, golf course, casinos, and other entertainment and rental type properties. You’ve never gone on vacation or stayed in a hotel?

Other than once for the FReeva Las Vegas conference sponsored by FR, not of that kind, no. Not once.

It’s a huge segment of business. You seem to confine business to an object that can be purchased and kept.

Not true. There is a difference between business and wealth creation. I was talking about the latter, per Genesis 1:28, the real First Commandment.

Do you consider the food industry to be business?

Food is incidental to what Trump does. You are broadening sets beyond recognition in order to make a point that belies the damage gambling does from generation to generation. It's Satanic, teaching people to put their faith in chance, and not the Lord. Got it? Very good!

What Trump builds does not build total wealth from generation to generation.

[DoughtyOne]

I wouldn't compare Trump to Obama for anything. Obama is such a troubling individual, to compare someone to him in any way is way over the top. I think you know that.

Tough. That's what I think he is.

Then don't get upset when I and others peg you for what you are for having done it.  Respect is a two way street, and you don't even respect yourself on this one.  To make that kind of a comparison is self-destructive.

Should you disagree with my prognostication ability compared to you, I have two words for you: Arnold Shwarzenegger.

Well I've got four words for you.  "Tom McClintock" and "Cruz Bustamante".

We are now twelve years from the California recall election, and you still haven't come to terms with the fact that I predicted what would likely happen and did, contrasted with what you said could happen but didn't.

I said McClintock didn't have a prayer of a chance at being elected governor.  You said that if I and other guys who liked McClintock would just vote for him, he would win.  We lived in a state that had just elected Davis again. We were clearly upside down in California.  In the California Senate and Assembly, both bodies were heavily Democrat.  These were the Democrat vs Republican (registrations) in California at the time of that election.  In addition to this, we all know what the mention of Republican means, in that there are Moderates and Conservatives.  Every Republican wasn't going to buy into McClintock, but you wouldn't accept that.  That was the hard reality, and I did accept it.  And yes, a Conservative can vote for a guy that is not the best, to prevent the absolute worst.  So I voted for Arnold Schwarzenegger. I did not do so because I liked him, he was a popular actor, or because I liked his policies or trusted him more than McClintock.  McClinton wasn't in the race IMO.  I was right.

I predicted the recall would be approved.  I predicted that Schwarzenegger would win.  I predicted Bustamante would be the leading Democrat.  I predicted McClintock didn't have a prayer of winning. I predicted that if we weren't careful, we could wind up with three candidates very close together and Bustamante might win.

Here's how the recall played out:

For/Against: 55.4% / 44.6%  recall

Cruz Bustamante: 31.5%  candidates
Tom McClintock: 13.5%
Arnold Schwarzenegger: 48.6%

McClintock + Schwarzenegger (62.1%) divided in half = 31.05%

My fear was that if votes were siphoned off Schwarenegger to boost McCintock, there would be trouble.  We could wind up in a three way race, too close to call.  I was afraid Bustamante could wind up governor.  I knew that if Schwarzenegger were proven to be vulnerable, some of his votes would siphon off to the leading Democrat runner.  That could have proven to be the difference causing Bustamante to be elected.  I didn't want to take that chance.  Before the election it was impossible to guage exactly where things stood.  McClintock had been polling in the 17% range.  I wasn't confident in those numbers.  I wasn't exactly sure where Bustamante would wind up.  For that matter, I wasn't exactly sure where Schwarzenegger would wind up although I was confident he was going to win.

Now as then, I did not want a Brown Separatist politician voted in as California's governor, and that's exactly what Bustamante was.  He was a member of MEChA in his college years.  Folks can read for themselves what that group stands for, and that Bustamante not only refused to renounce his membership, but praised it's (at that time) membership and policies.  Here's a very informative article.  See the word Aztlan in there.  MEChA advocates for the self-determination of Chicanos under a new entity known as Aztlan.  For those that can't put two and two together, that's a plan whereby California separates from the United States under a new nation called Aztlan.  California is not the only state on their radar either.  The complete South West of the United States is their goal for the new Aztlan.  Do I have to be a Moderate Republican to wish to avoid that?

Was I stating that Bustamante would become governor and immediately sign an Executive Order stating California would leave the nation immediately?  No.  What I did envision was Bustamante making every decision he faced favoring illegal immigrants, separatist steps, and basically telling White U. S. Citizens to get the hell out.  Lest someone think that is preposterous, here are some comments of the day.  Snopes tried to minimize them, but I've heard some of these comments with my own ears.  Snopes  

Torres found himself in the midst of controversy when on January 14, 1995, speaking at the University of California, Riverside to a group composed mainly of Latinos, Torres said that Proposition 187, passed by voters months prior, was "the last gasp of white America in California."  LINK

Yep, your two words harken back to a time when we faced hard choices before.  I'm sure you'll remind me of things Schwarzenegger did that none of us like.  As bad as he was, and he was bad, he wasn't an advocate of Azatlan.  He wasn't telling White Californias to get the hell out.  

In many ways what is taking place now is a indentical situation.

1. Schwarzenegger could be elected, and Trump can win the nomination and the presidency.
2. McClintoc couldn't be elected, and Cruz cannot win the nomination  (Democrats, Independents, and Moderate Republicans simply outnumber Conservatives)
3. If we don't agree to Trump, we get Bush, Rubio, Fiorina, or Carson.  If we get them, beating the Democrat will be very hard.  Think Bush/Gore or Bush/Kerry, just by the skin of his teeth.  Many voters will sit it out.
4. Clinton or Sanders are likely winners if three fails

I think they are love of country. Do you think Trump is lying about that?

Yes.

Once again, you are free to make this assertion.  Others are free to believe you.  Some of them are going to see this as fruit-loop territory.

Do you think he lies when he says he respects Christians?

Yes. I think he doesn't know diddly about Christianity and really doesn't care that much, but then, 99% of Christians don't either.

I don't think Trump is even close to a bedrock Christian.  None the less, I don't think he favors the followers of Islam over Christians.  I think he favors Christians.  You are free to think whatever you like, but once again, the views you are expressing here are marginalizing in nature.

Do you think he lies when he says he wants to build a wall, deport illegals, build up the military, help veterans, and a myriad of other things?

I think he knows the courts will stop the deportations and they won't happen without Congress, or he should. I think voluntary "deportation" will happen, with the inducement of reentering the country in weeks, after a bogus "vetting" process.

We used to deport illegal aliens all the time in this nation.  During the 60s, 70s, and 80s, I watched the buses leaving downtown Los Angeles headed for the border.  It is absurd to think we can't do it now.

You simply classify all this as lies? Really?

Yup. The positions are contrary to those only a few years ago and contain weasel words that allow him room to screw his supporters. He's a deal maker all right.

Okay, then I can judge Cruz and all the other candidates by the same measureing stick.  They all lie.  Why should I vote for your liar over my own, if that's you take on it?

They all lie to an extent. The only question is basically which liar do we vote for?

WE all lie to an extent, as our words are less than the Word of G-d. Hence, the comment is meaningless.

You're too cleaver by half there.  If that made sense nobody could ever be taken to task for lying.  You're trying to do it here.  Nonsense.

As to which, as I have said many times, I have not picked a candidate. I can say it will never be Trump. Ever. Nor do I have to vote for him in California, because my vote here is of no practical worth.

I would always urge you to vote for who you want.  I don't care if you vote for Trump or not.  I say advocate for whoever you like loudly too.  Just don't start comparing my candidate to Obama.  When you start doing that you veer off into self-destructive activity.

I don't want to see you do that because I like you.

[sheik yerbouty]

I agree, he had a strong influence on most of them..

[Mollypitcher1]

Well the Establishment has a new doll, Rubio is Jeb 2.0
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You’re absolutely correct!

[Mollypitcher1]

Jeb’s campaign manager complained to the producer about Jeb getting less air time.

I think I heard the producer say:

“I was just trying to help!”.....
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LOL. I love it!