Posted on 09/25/2015 6:42:19 PM PDT by Elderberry
More than four months after nine bikers were killed May 17 during a shootout outside the Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, troubling questions stand before us, while clarity remains elusive.
The mass arrest of 177 people has created a legal morass, and complicated an already complex investigation. An overly broad gag order is feeding suspicion that more than complexity is delaying the release of information about the investigation. And while autopsy reports on the nine bikers killed were released in August, ballistics testing reportedly continues. Without ballistics evidence the question of who shot whom increasingly generates harmful speculation. The embarrassing lack of transparency begs the question: Why don’t we know yet what really happened in Waco?
What we do know is that some police bullets hit bikers, a point confirmed last week by Associated Press reporter Emily Schmall following a review of more than 8,800 pages of police reports and other evidence. But it isn’t known how many of the nine dead or 18 wounded bikers were hit by police gunfire, or whether any of the police gunfire caused any of the bikers’ deaths.
A coalition of motorcycle clubs was meeting at the Twin Peaks restaurant when Waco police say a parking-lot fistfight between Bandidos and Cossacks, two biker gangs with a history of violence between them, escalated into a shootout that quickly involved numerous police officers who had assembled nearby to watch over the gathering. Police dash-cam video viewed by AP shows people fleeing the scene while shots are fired. Video viewed by AP from Twin Peaks and an adjacent restaurant does not clarify who is shooting at whom.
Schmall also reported last week that police confiscated more than 430 weapons after the shooting, including 151 guns. Some of the weapons were taken from bikers, some were removed from vehicles, some were found scattered about the scene. It isn’t clear what all the weapons are or how many of the guns were legally owned and carried — or how many might have been fired. An AP review of a Texas Department of Public Safety database showed that more than two-thirds of the 177 people arrested have no criminal history. Their lives appear to have been placed unfairly in legal limbo simply by their proximity to the shootout. That is, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Citing a DPS report, Schmall reported that authorities took the bikers to the Waco convention center to be interviewed as witnesses. Once there, McLennan County prosecutors decided to arrest the majority of those detained and charge them with engaging in organized crime, a catch-all charge. A justice of the peace approved scores of arrest affidavits without making any individual determination of probable cause, the AP reported.
Several examining trials have been held since the arrests to rule on the question of probable cause, and to determine whether there is enough evidence in each case to present it to a grand jury for possible indictment.
The mass arrest and the exorbitant $1 million bail that followed left scores of bikers sitting in jail for days or weeks, unable to afford bond. Eventually, bail was reduced for most of the bikers, which allowed them to post bond and return to their lives pending possible indictment and trial — though many had lost jobs or apartments while stuck in jail, and some even had lost custody of their children. The McLennan County grand jury that could consider indictments against the arrested bikers is led by James Head, a Waco police detective. The constitutionally questionable gag order thrown over the case was written by McLennan County District Attorney Abel Reyna and issued by District Judge Matt Johnson, Reyna’s former law partner. Both relationships underscore the familial and professional coziness among local officials that long have generated complaints about conflicts of interest in Waco and McLennan County. An AP review of a Texas Department of Public Safety database showed that more than two-thirds of the 177 people arrested have no criminal history. Their lives appear to have been placed unfairly in legal limbo simply by their proximity to the shootout. That is, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Citing a DPS report, Schmall reported that authorities took the bikers to the Waco convention center to be interviewed as witnesses. Once there, McLennan County prosecutors decided to arrest the majority of those detained and charge them with engaging in organized crime, a catch-all charge. A justice of the peace approved scores of arrest affidavits without making any individual determination of probable cause, the AP reported. Several examining trials have been held since the arrests to rule on the question of probable cause, and to determine whether there is enough evidence in each case to present it to a grand jury for possible indictment. The mass arrest and the exorbitant $1 million bail that followed left scores of bikers sitting in jail for days or weeks, unable to afford bond. Eventually, bail was reduced for most of the bikers, which allowed them to post bond and return to their lives pending possible indictment and trial — though many had lost jobs or apartments while stuck in jail, and some even had lost custody of their children. The McLennan County grand jury that could consider indictments against the arrested bikers is led by James Head, a Waco police detective. The constitutionally questionable gag order thrown over the case was written by McLennan County District Attorney Abel Reyna and issued by District Judge Matt Johnson, Reyna’s former law partner. Both relationships underscore the familial and professional coziness among local officials that long have generated complaints about conflicts of interest in Waco and McLennan County.
What has become increasingly apparent over the past four months is that most of the bikers who were arrested May 17 probably had nothing to do with the alleged clash that prompted the shooting, or with the shooting itself. Many of the bikers present at Twin Peaks may have been nothing more than motorcycle enthusiasts who wear leather vests and club colors as they play the role of biker rebel, but who are not members of criminal motorcycle gangs. An AP review of a Texas Department of Public Safety database showed that more than two-thirds of the 177 people arrested have no criminal history. Their lives appear to have been placed unfairly in legal limbo simply by their proximity to the shootout. That is, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Citing a DPS report, Schmall reported that authorities took the bikers to the Waco convention center to be interviewed as witnesses. Once there, McLennan County prosecutors decided to arrest the majority of those detained and charge them with engaging in organized crime, a catch-all charge. A justice of the peace approved scores of arrest affidavits without making any individual determination of probable cause, the AP reported.
Several examining trials have been held since the arrests to rule on the question of probable cause, and to determine whether there is enough evidence in each case to present it to a grand jury for possible indictment.
The mass arrest and the exorbitant $1 million bail that followed left scores of bikers sitting in jail for days or weeks, unable to afford bond. Eventually, bail was reduced for most of the bikers, which allowed them to post bond and return to their lives pending possible indictment and trial — though many had lost jobs or apartments while stuck in jail, and some even had lost custody of their children.
The McLennan County grand jury that could consider indictments against the arrested bikers is led by James Head, a Waco police detective. The constitutionally questionable gag order thrown over the case was written by McLennan County District Attorney Abel Reyna and issued by District Judge Matt Johnson, Reyna’s former law partner. Both relationships underscore the familial and professional coziness among local officials that long have generated complaints about conflicts of interest in Waco and McLennan County.
The public needs to be confident that every one of the bikers arrested May 17 — whether alleged gang member or ersatz rebel — will receive impartial justice. It’s up to Waco authorities to build and maintain that confidence.
GATOR
Please define what is large caliber, medium caliber or small caliber.
I shoot 1000s of rounds every year. Unless the round hits a hard object and shatters, the base of the slug is almost always relatively intact and can be measured with a micrometer. I find it odd the report uses the word medium caliber. They do know what caliber those slugs were and thus begs the question of why it has not been reported as of yet.
When Trump gets elected he’s gonna hang all these dope-dealing bikers.
Wrong.
He’s going to ban the police union enablers of guys like these -
http://www.ksat.com/news/1-of-3-sapd-officers-booked-into-jail-for-sex-scheme
LoL, once Trump gets rid of the Mexican criminals that you guys work for, he's gonna take your Harley ass-jewelry toys away and dangle all you "tough guys" from the branches. It's gonna be open season on dope-dealing biker scum. Stock up on ammo!
Is there any reason to think that the LEO’s were ONLY shooting AR-15’s, etc., and not .45, .40, or 9mm?
Beyond the .223: Alternative Cartridges for the AR Platform
A look at some of the cartridges other than the .223 which one can find in the AR platform.
.17 Remington: When this cartridge was introduced in 1971, it was the fastest thing anyone had seen. With Remington factory ammo, a 25-grain hollow-point bullet has a muzzle velocity of 4,040 fps, while the newer 20-grain AccuTip load is flying at 4,250 fps. Bullet impacts at this kind of velocity turn predators into puddles.
.204 Ruger: The .204 Ruger is currently the highest-velocity centerfire rifle cartridge in production by a major ammo-maker. Hornady originated the cartridge and has the load with the fastest muzzle velocity. It’s a 24-grain NTX bullet with a muzzle velocity of 4,400 fps. The 32-grain bullets run about 4,200 fps, and the 40-grainers move out at 3,900 fps. Hornady also has a 45-grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 3,625 fps. My AR in .204 Ruger has a 24-inch barrel. It will put most bullets into less than 0.5 MOA, and it absolutely wrecks coyotes.
5.45x39mm: The 5.45x39mm was Russia’s answer to the 5.56mm NATO and was developed in 1974 for use with the new AK-74 rifle. Hornady, Wolf and TulAmmo all offer newly manufactured expanding-bullet ammo. Wolf and TulAmmo have 60-grain HP bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2,960 fps. Hornady loads a 60-grain V-MAX at 2,810 fps. All of these loads use a Berdan-primed, non-reloadable steel case.
.223 WSSM: Olympic Arms makes hunting rifles in all three of the Winchester Super Short Magnum (WSSSM) cartridges: .223, .243 and .25. Winchester makes the ammo.
The .223 WSSM has the potential to be the best predator AR cartridge. Factory loads drive a 55-grain Ballistic Silvertip bullet at 3,850 fps. The 64-grain load has a muzzle velocity of 3,600 fps and will work for antelope and even deer.
.243 WSSM: The .243 WSSM cartridge might be the ultimate dual-use AR-15 hunting round. With a 55-grain bullet at 4,060 fps, it is a varmint and predator-hunting machine. Turn loose a 100-grainer at 3,110 fps, and it’s a death ray for deer and antelope.
.25 WSSM: This is a .25-06 in an AR-15 rifle. The 115-grain bullet exits the muzzle at 3,060 fps. Deer, antelope and black bear—it’s all covered.
6.5 Grendel: Invented by Bill Alexander from Alexander Arms, the 6.5 Grendel is designed for precision long-range target work. But it’s proven to be a good hunting and defense cartridge as well. Alexander Arms, Hornady and Wolf offer ammo. Bullet weights generally run from 120 to 130 grains.
The popular Hornady ammo is available in two 123-grain bullets: the A-MAX for targets and the SST for hunting. The muzzle velocity is 2,580 fps from a 24-inch barrel and 2,350 fps from a 16-inch barrel.
6.8 SPC: The 6.8 SPC has a checkered history and as far as I can tell, there are currently four different chamber designs for the cartridge.
It uses a .277-inch bullet, the same as the famed .270 Winchester. The Hornady load with a 110-grain V-MAX bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2,550 fps from a 16-inch barrel. The company also loads a 120-grain SST bullet at 2,460 fps from a 16-inch barrel. Remington, Silver State Armory, Wilson Combat and others have other ammo available with a wide range of bullet options.
300 AAC Blackout: The 300 AAC Blackout, or 300 BLK, is in vogue right now, and just about everybody is jumping on the bandwagon. It was originally developed by J.D. Jones to use with heavy bullets weighing 200 grains or more, running subsonic and suppressed. He called it the .300 Whisper. AAC reintroduced the cartridge as the 300 Blackout. With a lighter, supersonic bullet like a 125-grain at 2,250 fps, it is getting a lot of interest as a defensive and hunting round. While there are those who will no doubt write letters of disagreement, I am not a huge fan of this cartridge for deer or hogs, but for smaller game or home defense, it is excellent.
.30 Remington AR: This necked-down .450 Bushmaster cartridge provides ballistics that are similar to the .300 Savage. The muzzle velocity for a 125-grain bullet is 2,800 fps, and it runs at 2,575 fps for a 150-grain bullet. The new Remington Hog Hammer load has a Barnes 125-grain TSX bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps. This is the highest-performing .30-caliber cartridge in commercial use in the AR-15 rifle.
.300 Olympic Super Short Magnum: Olympic Arms developed a .30-caliber cartridge by necking up the WSSM case. The company is reporting a 3,040-fps velocity with a 150-grain bullet. That means the cartridge is outperforming the .30-06, from an AR-15 rifle. This is a proprietary cartridge available only from Olympic Arms.
7.62x39mm: This is the cartridge that made the AK-47 famous. It’s been around in AR-15-type rifles for many years. The 7.62x39mm has a 125-grain, .311-inch bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2,365 fps from a 24-inch barrel. This makes it adequate for deer hunting if quality soft-point bullets are used. Of course, its pedigree as a battle round is well documented.
.450 Bushmaster: This is a big-bore cartridge designed for big-game hunting. It delivers a 250-grain Hornady bullet out the muzzle at 2,200 fps. Hornady and Remington both have ammo, and Bushmaster offers rifles.
My favorite load is the new Remington Hog Hammer. That’s because it features a Barnes 275-grain XPB bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2,175 fps and generating 2,758 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. I shot a truckload of hogs with it this year as well as a three-quarter-ton water buffalo. I was extremely impressed with the performance of this load.
.458 SOCOM: The .458 SOCOM uses a lengthened .50 Action Express case with a rebated rim and necked down for a .458-inch bullet. One big advantage with the .458-inch diameter is that there is a wide selection of bullets on the market. CorBon, Southern Ballistic Research and Wilson Combat make ammo. Rock River and Wilson Combat make rifles for it.
The .458 SOCOM pushes a Barnes Tipped DPX 300-grain bullet to a muzzle velocity of 1,825 fps. The 400-grain bullets exit at 1,600 fps. Think .45-70 in an AR.
.50 Beowulf: With a 325-grain, half-inch-wide bullet at 2,000 fps, Bill Alexander’s .50 Beowulf is the closest thing to a bludgeon you can fit in an AR-15 rifle. Even from the short 16.5-inch barrel on my rifle, the 325-grain bullet produces a muzzle velocity of 1,950 fps, or 1,800 fps for the 400-grain. Those are smackdown-style ballistics in the AR-15.
Who knows what calibers the shooters were using?
http://www.kiesler.com/police/productdetail.aspx?catid=708&pid=4968
Rock River Arms - .458 SOCOM RRA LAR-458™ CAR A4
Item# 36108
LAW ENFORCEMENT, FIRST RESPONDER, MILITARY, & FFL SALES ONLY
KIESLER’S DOES NOT SELL TO OR DEAL WITH THE CIVILIAN MARKET OR INDIVIDUALS. KIESLER’S ONLY DEALS WITH, ISSUES QUOTES TO, AND SELLS TO FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, INDIVIDUAL OFFICERS, RESERVE OFFICERS, AFFILIATED GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, US MILITARY, INDIVIDUAL MILITARY PERSONNEL, RETIRED MILITARY WITH RETIRED ID, RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT, DHS/TSA EMPLOYEES, LICENSED SECURITY OFFICERS, AFFILIATED TRAINING FACILITIES, FFL DEALERS, FIREFIGHTERS, EMS, PROSECUTORS, DISTRICT ATTORNEYS. DUE TO RESTRICTIONS, KIESLER’S DOES NOT QUOTE OR SELL WEAPONS, HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES, OR AMMUNITION TO CALIFORNIA, COLORADO, MASSACHUSETTS, NEW JERSEY, MARYLAND, NEW YORK CITY, OR NY STATE.
“Is there any reason to think that the LEO’s were ONLY shooting AR-15’s, etc., and not .45, .40, or 9mm?”
Somewhere about May 18 the gangbots here set the goal that the police were firing only .223 and the autopsies would show that only .223 were kills.
There is NO indication that cops were shooting anything other than .223 while videos show gangsters shooting handguns.
Manuel Issac Rodriguez, 40, Allen, one gunshot wound in the head and one in the back. Head: Medium Caliber NOT .223; Back Medium Caliber NOT .223
Matthew Mark Smith, 27, Keller, one gunshot wound in the back and one in the abdomen.
Back: Medium Caliber NOT .223; Abdamen: Not Determined
Jesus Delgado Rodriguez, 65, New Braunfels, one gunshot wound to the head and one in the back. Head: Medium Caliber NOT .223; Trunk: Undertermined
Richard Matthew Jordan II, 31, Pasadena, one gunshot wound to the head. Head: Medium Caliber NOT .223
Richard Vincent Kirschner Jr., 47, Wylie, one gunshot wound to the top of the head, one to the left knee and one in the buttocks. Knee: Medium Caliber NOT .223; Buttocks: Small Caliber .223 or .22
Wayne Lee Campbell, 43, Fort Worth, one gunshot wound to the head. Trunk: Small Caliber .223 or .22
Daniel Raymond Boyett, 44, Waco, shot two times in the head. Head: Medium Caliber NOT .223; Abdomen: Medium Caliber NOT .223; Head: Undetermined
Charles Wayne Russell, 46, Tyler, shot once in the chest. Chest: Small Caliber .223 or .22
Jacob Lee Rhyne, 39, Ranger, shot once in the neck and once in the abdomen.Neck: Undertermined; Abdomen: Undetermined
Spaz. Arm: Not Available ... yet!
“I find it odd the report uses the word medium caliber. “
Obviously you have no education in autopsies or police reports.
“this article”
Are you referring to the ultra-lib editorial?
It is really desperation time when you pound the blogs with an editorial from an ultra-left paper ...
As we know, the left-wing media is completely reliable when it reports on certain issues in certain ways... and demonically corrupt otherwise.
” the left-wing media is completely reliable “
I detailed a couple earlier in the thread.
They mentioned the examining trials but failed to include that probable cause was validated.
They changed the AP report from convictions to criminal records. They provided an embedded link to AP but it didn’t go to the AP report.
Lol, I bet this passed the highly refined smell-tests of the local drug-dealing biker nutriders. Rock-solid and reliable journalism... at least on this drug-dealing biker topic. On anything else the ultra-left blogs are of course the corrupt minions of Obama.
If you represent the typical Catholic, with your incredible susceptibility to melodrama as "reality" and seeing a savior and superhero in a TV celebrity billionaire showman with an established history of siding with Democrats ...
... then maybe there's something to this anti-Catholic stuff, although many of the very finest and most beloved lifelong friend I have are Catholics ... just as some of the finest and most beloved lifelong friends and siblings I have are those horrible drug-dealing bikers you so stupidly and naively believe are "criminals."
You are an embarrassment to Catholics, conservatives, and Free Republic; your political age is about seven years old.
Man ... I really hope you’re being sarcastic. I really do.
Good old drug-dealing bikers. Some nutriders will say and do anything to defend them.
I am referring to the article that supports the basic Constitutional rights for every citizen.
Gator has a playmate today.
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