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To: Bob434; daniel1212
Even conceding for the sake of argument your assertion that the story is a parable meant to convey a message about greed, wealth, and uncaring attitudes, your answer studiously avoids the question as to why Jesus would utter an oxymoronic analogy using things that supposedly do not exist and that were supposedly contrary to reality and sound doctrine; namely, that there is conscious existence after death.

I stated in my previous post, it would be like Jesus saying that the Kingdom of Heaven is like a rock that a man threw in the ground and it grew to be the greatest of camels.

It's absurd. To use a more contemporary analogy, it would be like Jesus basing a story on a bizarre, oxymoronic concept like "gay marriage". Now we know that there really isn't any such thing as "gay marriage" no matter what five reprobate minds on the Supreme Court say, because it is a contradiction in terms. Likewise would conscious existence after death be if there really were no such thing.

I do not believe Jesus spoke absurdities that have no basis in reality and that would be contrary to sound doctrine.

Cordially,

116 posted on 09/21/2015 6:57:21 AM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: Diamond

[[I do not believe Jesus spoke absurdities that have no basis in reality and that would be contrary to sound doctrine. ]]

So what are you saying? That the passage is talking about a real event? Because everything we know about God’s word show that it oculd not have been a real event- Or are you perhaps suggesting this parable shouldn’t have been included in God’s word?

[[your answer studiously avoids the question as to why Jesus would utter an oxymoronic analogy using things that supposedly do not exist]]

I did not avoid that- I answered why He did such a thing- I also pointed out many reasons why the parable can not be true event-

A parable is nothing ore than an analogy meant to point out a principle- there is no ‘law’ or ‘rule’ that states analogies have to be true or realistic in order to get a principle across

When Jesus said “Destroy this temple and it will be raised back in 3 days’ Was He not ‘telling a whopper’ as you contend? Jesus isn’t a literal temple- nor is He a literal fig tree- it is every bit as ‘absurd’ as you put it to compare Himself to inadamant objects as it is to tell a parable about events that couldn’t happen in order to drive home the point that Greed and uncaring attitudes will take a man to hell because greed and uncaring attitudes become their god and harden their hearts to the point that nothing else matters-

[[Sometimes in the Bible it is obvious when a parable is a parable, and when real events are real events. Sometimes the reader can easily distinguish between things to be taken literally and things to be taken figuratively.

Even Jesus’ own disciples were often confused by his figurative speech and parables. For example on another occasion he told his disciples to “be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and the Sadducees” and they misunderstood, thinking that he was reproaching them for having forgotten to buy bread. ]]

http://www.christadelphia.org/pamphlet/p_lazarus.htm

(Note I do not agree with this site’s idea of ‘soul sleep’, I give several other reasons why this must be a parable which have nothing to do with ‘soul sleep’ in a previous post-

“This is why I speak to them in parables: ‘Though seeing they do not see, though hearing they do not understand’” (Matthew 13:13)

“Although I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly”. (John16:25)

And just for the record- Jesus was very possibly prophesying about Raising Lazarus from the dead in this parable as well according to some-

[[Another source showing what Jews of Jesus’ day believed is a book called 4 Maccabees, which was probably written by Jews in Egypt about a generation after Christ. In this work of fiction Abraham, Isaac and Jacob receive and welcome Jewish martyrs into the world of the dead:

“After our death in this fashion Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will receive us and all our forefathers will praise us” (4 Maccabees 13:17). ]]

This parable was to Jews- who would have understood Jesus was using a common cultural superstition in His Parable- something THEY could understand, but something that was not biblical-

This is an important point- Many things in God’s word are misinterpreted because the reader does NOT understand the cultures of the day, nor do they realize that Jesus’ miracles and parables were VERY Steeped in Jewish tradition- and the reason for this was 1: Because Jews were God’s people, and 2: Because After hearing AND Seeing Jesus’ VERY specific miracles, steeped in Jewish Tradition and lore, could NOT turn around and claim they ‘didn’t know He was the Christ’ Because Jesus was fulfilling ALL the Jewish prophesies to the letter-

The Pharisees taught the unbiblical concept that when people died they went to either Abraham’s boson, or to fiery hell-

Jesus’ parable was spoken TO these same Pharisees- using their own words against them and pointing out in stark undeniable terms to them that the law DOES NOT SAVE as evidenced by the rich man in hell

Note, that Jesus was NOT accommodating their myths- He was tearing their Myths apart- pointing out to them that everything they taught was NOT biblical

They taught that the ‘great gulf’ could be crossed in an agnelic boat- Jesus showed by His parable that this was a lie

They taught that the living could pray for those in hades so that the Lord would have mercy- Jesus put the LIE to this teaching in His parable

[[Another contradiction is that in other Jewish myths Abraham is credited with the ability to do what the Rich Man asks (v.27) and resurrect the dead. For example in the 1st Century Jewish fiction The Testament of Abraham the patriarch Abraham pleads for the dead and returns 7,000 to the living.

“Then Abraham arose and fell upon the earth, and [the Angel of] Death with him, and God sent a spirit of life into the dead and they were made alive again.” (Testament of Abraham ‘A’ 18:11).

But Jesus again contradicts the myths, and has Abraham refusing to raise Lazarus:

“They have Moses and the Prophets, let them listen to them” (v.29)

This reflects Jesus’ own condemnation of the Pharisees in John 5:39. ]]

(Same link)

Can man speak from hell to those in heaven? The bible says no I believe-

[[The source for the unusual Hades in Luke 16:23, as with the source for the ‘Bosom of Abraham’ itself, lies outside the Bible in the myths of the 1st Century. Many Jewish myths survive today (eg. in the Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha, Dead Sea Scrolls, Talmud, etc.). In these works a variety of fantastic pictures of Hades are given that have no connection with the Old Testament. One of the closest to the picture given in Luke 16:23-24 is in a work called The Apocalypse of Zephaniah. ]]

[[and that would be contrary to sound doctrine.]]

As mentioned, there was a reason for this parable- and that reason was to put the LIE to the false teachings of the Pharisees- This parable was VERY Jewish oriented- and not meant specifically for non jews (except to show that greed and uncaring attitudes are bad when you do not have the Lord as Savior- Your works will NOT get you to heaven)


122 posted on 09/21/2015 9:22:15 AM PDT by Bob434
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