Posted on 09/19/2015 6:13:19 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
“There is one very serious defect to my mind in Christ’s moral character, and that is that He believed in hell.” So wrote the agnostic British philosopher Bertrand Russell in 1967. The idea of eternal punishment for sin, he further notes, is “a doctrine that put cruelty in the world and gave the world generations of cruel torture.”
His views are at least more consistent than religious philosopher John Hick, who refers to hell as a “grim fantasy” that is not only “morally revolting” but also “a serious perversion of the Christian Gospel.” Worse yet was theologian Clark Pinnock who, despite having regarded himself as an evangelical, dismissed hell with a rhetorical question: “How can one imagine for a moment that the God who gave His Son to die for sinners because of His great love for them would install a torture chamber somewhere in the new creation in order to subject those who reject Him to everlasting pain?”
So, what should we think of hell? Is the idea of it really responsible for all the cruelty and torture in the world? Is the doctrine of hell incompatible with the way of Jesus Christ? Hardly. In fact, the most prolific teacher of hell in the Bible is Jesus, and He spoke more about it than He did about heaven. In Matthew 25:41–46 He teaches us four truths about hell that should cause us to grieve over the prospect of anyone experiencing its horrors.
1. Hell is a state of separation from God.
On the day of judgment, Jesus will say to all unbelievers, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire” (v. 41). This is the same sort of language that Jesus uses elsewhere to describe the final judgment of unbelievers (see 7:23).
To be separated from God is to be separated from anything and everything good. That is hard to conceive because even the most miserable person enjoys some of God’s blessings. We breathe His air, are nourished by food that He supplies, and experience many other aspects of His common grace.
On earth even atheists enjoy the benefits of God’s goodness. But in hell, these blessings will be nonexistent. Those consigned there will remember God’s goodness, and will even have some awareness of the unending pleasures of heaven, but they will have no access to them.
This does not mean that God will be completely absent from hell. He is and will remain omnipresent (Ps. 139:7-8). To be separated from the Lord and cast into hell does not mean that a person will finally be free of God. That person will remain eternally accountable to Him. He will remain Lord over the person’s existence. But in hell, a person will be forever separated from God in His kindness, mercy, grace, and goodness. He will be consigned to deal with Him in His holy wrath.
2. Hell is a state of association.
Jesus says that the eternal fire of hell was “prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41). People were made for God. Hell was made for the Devil. Yet people who die in their sin, without Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, will spend eternity in hell with the one being who is most unlike God. It is a tragic irony that many who do not believe in the Devil in this life will wind up spending eternity being tormented with him in hell.
3. Hell is a state of punishment.
Jesus describes it as “fire” (v. 41) and a place of “punishment” (v. 46). Hell is a place of retribution where justice is served through the payment for crimes.
The punishment must fit the crime. The misery and torment of hell point to the wickedness and seriousness of sin. Those who protest the biblical doctrine of hell as being excessive betray their inadequate comprehension of the sinfulness of sin. For sinners to be consigned to anything less than the horrors of eternal punishment would be a miscarriage of justice.
4. Hell is an everlasting state.
Though some would like to shorten the duration of this state, Jesus’ words are very clear. He uses the same adjective to describe both punishment and life in verse 46. If hell is not eternal, neither is the new heaven and earth.
How can God exact infinite punishment for a finite sin? First, because the person against whom all sin is committed is infinite. Crimes against the infinitely holy, infinitely kind, infinitely good, and infinitely supreme Ruler of the world deserve unending punishment. In addition to that, those condemned to hell will go on sinning for eternity. There is no repentance in hell. So the punishment will continue as long as the sinning does.
The dreadfulness of hell deepens our grateful praise for the salvation we have in Jesus Christ. Hell is what we deserve. And hell is what He experienced on the cross in our place.
Believing the truth about hell also motivates us to persuade people to be reconciled to God. By God’s grace those of us who are trusting Christ have been rescued from this horrible destiny. How can we love people and refuse to speak plainly to them about the realities of eternal damnation and God’s gracious provision of salvation?
Clearer visions of hell will give us greater love for both God and people.
This post was originally published in Tabletalk magazine.
[[One mistake and that was it? God created us so we are really His mess.]]
One earthly mistake (or rather deliberate act) and you stand before an earthly judge- is it the judge’s fault you decided to break the law?
no
"...Now, if Russell had been reasoning and speaking in terms of the Christian worldview, his attempt to assess moral wisdom, human worthiness, and moral progress -- as well as to adversely judge shortcomings in these matters -- would be understandable and expected. Christians have a universal, objective and absolute standard of morality in the revealed word of God. But obviously Russell did not mean to be speaking as though he adopted Christian premises and perspectives! On what basis, then, could Russell issue his moral evaluations and judgments? In terms of what view of reality and knowledge did he assume that there was anything like an objective criterion of morality by which to find Christ, Christians, and the church lacking?Russell was embarrassingly arbitrary in this regard. He just took it for granted, as an unargued philosophical bias, that there was a moral standard to apply, and that he could presume to be the spokesman and judge who applies it. One could easily counter Russell by simply saying that he had arbitrarily chosen the wrong standard of morality. To be fair, Russell's opponents must be granted just as much arbitrariness in choosing a moral standard, and they may then select one different from his own. And there goes his argument down in defeat." - Greg Bahnsen
What a misrepresentation of God to say that He TORTURES people for not believing.
He's not some kind of sadist who is torturing people for not believing like He's mad or something.
Hell is what it is and people go there of their own volition.
Actually, for someone who rejects God, being in His presence unprotected would probably seem a lot like hell anyway.
God is a consuming fire and sin cannot remain in His holy pureness.
If you’re born again, there is no sin on your soul. You’ve been regenerated and have a new sinless nature within.
When the body of flesh dies, that old nature dies with it and all that’s left is the new, regenerate, sinless nature, which can be and will be in God’s presence.
The record of sin debt against the believer has been cancelled, so no sin remains to his account to condemn him.
The saved person is NOT going to hell otherwise they are not saved, because hell is what they are being saved from.
Glen Miller on christianthinktank.com does offer many good arguments on many things, but this idea by Lewis is not one of them. Souls in Hell certainly would choose to go to Heaven as well as back to earth if they could, and would welcome death, if it is TOO LATE!!!
If all are as the rich man in the literal story of him and Lazarus in Lk, 16, it reveals that those in Hell are conscious, humbled, not contentious, and earnestly desiring both relief as well as the welfare of those on earth.
They now have the kind of heart that would accept Christ, but which grace God owes no man, and having spurned/sinned away their days of grace, resisting conscience and rejecting Christ by rejecting whatever light they have, which light comes from Christ. (Jn. 1:9) having "loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."
While they may not have much or any comprehension of all the virtues of heaven, rather than raging against God, the rich man reveals one who can see he has no case, and in fact one day will admit, as a matter of fact will confess, as if in regretful realization,the worthiness of God, and give Him glory: "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (Revelation 5:13)
I believe the souls in Hell, while not yet realizing the full extent of their guilt until the great white throne judgment, know that their judgment is just, which makes their suffering worse, as they cannot hope that justice will set them free.
But it may be postulated that if the true believer ultimately only wants to see God glorified, then if they went to Hell then they could be thankful that God is justified in all His sayings and doings (I for one too often contend with my Maker, as if I can run the universe better!), and rejoice that He will be exlted. Of course, that would not the Hell for them that it is for others. But we should be willing to go to Hell if that would best exalt God and give Him the most glory.
May the Lord receive the reward of His sufferings, which believers will.
Wrong, as your idea of perfection would require one who cannot disobey God, and were as God Himself. A+E were perfect, without moral defect or sinful nature, and able to make choices.
And choice is meaningless unless there is that from which to choose btwn.
And if choice has meaning, then it must have consequences.
God could have,
1. made us (and angels) with no moral standard or sense or deprived us from the moral ability to respond to or choose good [morally insensible].
2. granted us free moral agency, but never have given us anything to choose between [negation of moral choices].
3. called man to make the Creator their ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security, which is what is right and what is best for man, versus finite created beings or things, and provided moral revelation and influences. But always have moved us to do good, and never have allowed us to choose evil (such as make believing in God and choosing good so utterly compelling — like God appearing daily and doing miracles on demand, and preventing any seeming evidence to the contrary so that no man could attempt excuses [effective negation of any freedom to choose].
4. allowed us to do evil, but immediately reversed any effects [negation of moral consequences].
5. allowed us to do bad, but restricted us to a place where it would harm no one but ourselves [restriction of moral consequences].
6. allowed us to choose between good and evil, and to affect others by it, but not ultimately reward or punish us accordingly [negation of eternal consequences, positive or negative].
7. given us the ability to choose, and alternatives to chose from, and to face and overcome evil or be overcome by it, with the ability to effect others and things by our choices, and to exercise some reward or punishment in this life for morality, and ultimately reward or punishment all accordingly [pure justice].
8. restrained evil to some degree, while making the evil that man does to work out for the good of those who want good, and who thus love God, who is good.
9. in accordance with 8, the Creator could have chose to manifest Himself in the flesh, and by Him to provide man a means of escaping the ultimate retribution of Divine justice, and instead receive unmerited eternal favor, at God’s own expense and credit, appropriated by a repentant obedient faith, in addition to the loss or gaining of certain rewards based on one’s quality of work as a child of God. And eternally punish, to varying degrees, those whose response to God’s revelation manifested they want evil, [justice maintained while mercy and grace given].
Indeed. Good to hear from you.
"Lazarus and the Rich man" is not a literal story. It's a parable. The Lazarus of that parable was not a real person living it up in Paradise, nor was the rich man a real person suffering the torments of Hell fire.
Not a good analogy since the judge did not design and create me.
BKMK
That’s an awful lot of things God could have done. What’s your point?
No? I’m a Catholic was taught that if a Catholic committed suicide their soul would be damned to Hell.
The Catholic church likes to damn a lot of people to hell for and over things that God never even mentions in Scripture, much less calls sin.
It was explained to me that a person who did commit suicide had been ‘’abandoned by God’’.( I’m old school Catholic; pre-Vatican 2, Catholic school of the 50’s/60’s). That to kill ones self was to throw away the gift of life that God had given.
Right your a re ‘’metmom’’ And be grateful to God HE didn’t make you them.
They have Christ in them, the hope of glory. They are already His and HE will never abandon them.
His promise.....Hebrews 13:5-6 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”
That despite protestations that somehow God was unjust or unloving in the light of suffering, there is no reasonable alternative than what God did in the last scenario.
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