[[The obvious point is that the person who is carnal; that is, one who claims to be saved, yet lives a habitual lifestyle of carnality without repentance is unsaved,]]
nonsense- IF what you say is true, then Paul is a liar and no one in the church of Corinthians was saved, nor was King David, nor was Lot, nor was Sampson, nor was... on and on and on it goes-
[[agreeing with God concerning our sins, and abandoning them]]
How many sins have you abandoned? Did King David abandon his sins? Nope! Did the church at corinth abandon their sins when they were saved? Nope!
Sorry- but Lordship salvation DENIES the word of God
[[You cannot use Abraham, David, Samson to illustrate the covenant under which God deals with humans today]]
Lol- ok- Psssst- early believers had faith in the coming Christ- that is what saved them- not their works look it up
[[We are to trade our sins in exchange for being credited with His righteousness.]]
Really? Point out in God’s word where He or ANY apostle of prophet states such heresy?
[[Mt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.]]
For goodness sakes- you DO know this is talking about a hypothetical issue where ONLY people capable of complete sinlessness are able to enter heaven and that no such sinlessness exists in ANY person (hence the NEED for CHRIST’S sinlessness, right)-
Christ was explaining to the people who thought works could save them, that even the greatest teachers of ‘works based salvation’ were NOT going to enter the kingdom of heaven because their works were filth in the sight of the Lord
Christ was speaking to UNSAVED preachers of ‘religiosity’ - Scholars who based their salvation on their OWN works and OWN knowledge-
This is the danger of taking verses out of context and trying to apply htem to a theology that is unbiblical- it falls apart when examined in context- These scribes professed salvation, BUT they based their salvation on ERROR- they thought they could work their way to heaven, and Christ was using a hypothetical situation to inform them that unless they were absolutely perfect and sinless, they could NOT enter heaven- He was trying to tell them that the ONLY way they could become sinless was through faith in HIM and in HIM alone
[[Prov. 29:1 He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.
2Co_13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?]]
Neither verse has anything to do with losing salvation
[[1 Jn. 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not (persistently) commit sin; for his (God’s) seed (Word) remaineth in him (the saved person): and he (the saved person) cannot (habitually practice) sin (as a lifestyle, seen by all), because he is born of God. ]]
Psssst- look up 1 Corinthians sometime- either one book is Lying, OR there is another explanation to be had- We know that the bible is full of examples of backslidden Christians, carnal
Christians, and Christians living in sin (which you conveniently declare off limits in this discussion because it conflicts with the heresy of lordship salvation)
[[Ex. 9:27 And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is righteous, and I and my people are wicked.
That is confession of sins, without repentance from and ceasing of them.]]
For crying out loud- Pharoah was UNSAVED, as were his people- He was simply trying to AVOID punishment from God
I suggested to
But there is one very important, crystal-clear concept that you ought to take another look at, and this is the transaction that takes place between the human and God, which defines the conditions for salvation. Here's your mocking response to this unchangeable Biblical concept you apparently have been unaware of:
imardmd1: [[We are to trade our sins in exchange for being credited with His righteousness.]]
Bob434: Really? Point out in God’s word where He or ANY apostle of prophet states such heresy?
I have already carefully pointed out in my note to you, that transaction is called "reconciliation" in our English, and by the words katellagay (noun) and katellasso (verb) in the Greek. I gave you the Strong's number, by which you can look up the definition of this kind of interaction in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, or Thayer's Greek/English Lexicon, or in Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (Unabridged), all of which are at my fingertips in both book form and in Bible software on my computer, and which you need to study diligently before you offer your opinions.
2 Cor. 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Cor. 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Strong's Number G2644
καταλλάσσω
katallassō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
1a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
1b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one
1c) to receive one into favour
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2596 and G236
My dear FRiend, if this concept is not clear to you, it might mean that you don't really know what salvation is all about. In fact, it is about a changed, a radically altered state of mind and behavior. Your resistance to what I am trying to teach you is itself an indication that your gospel is deeply flawed. You are confusing the doctrine of sanctification with "Lordship salvation," and I really expect to see that you don't even really understand what that approach involves.
Another issue in which your response is erroneous is this one:
Christ was speaking to UNSAVED preachers of ‘religiosity’ - Scholars who based their salvation on their OWN works and OWN knowledge-
No. he was not. He was addressing his disciples before he audience of multitudes in the Semon on The Mount. This only shows that you have not even checked the context, but have based your remark on a false impression of what this text means.
All in all, you probably won't allow a fact-based discussion nor show a willingness to learn, so I guess no real Bible student will be able to help your understanding of Bible doctrines on salvation/sanctification issues.
Don't say that I didn't make a sincere effort to inform you without arguing.
Please note that this discussion arose out of the response of a supposed pastor when he was caught in the act of looking for another sexual partner than his wife. While it is God that judges, we must treat such behavior as coming from someone who professes to be a Christian, yet not behaving as one saved by persistently committing his full trust in Jesus.