WaPo Columnist Asks: When does your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job?

Washi, The Volokh Conspiracy ^ | 09/06/2015 | Eugene Volokh

[SeekAndFind]

Can your religion legally excuse you from doing part of your job? This is one of the questions in the Kentucky County Clerk marriage certificate case. But it also arises in lots of other cases — for instance, the Muslim flight attendant who doesn’t want to serve alcohol and who filed a complaint on Tuesday with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission over the airline’s denial of an exemption.

The question has also arisen before with regard to:

* Nurses who had religious objections to being involved in abortions (even just to washing instruments that would be used in abortions);

* Pacifist postal workers who had religious objections to processing draft registration forms;

* A Jehovah’s Witness employee who had religious objections to raising a flag, which was a task assigned to him;

* An IRS employee who had religious objections to working on tax exemption applications for organizations that promote “abortion, … homosexuality, worship of the devil, euthanasia, atheism, legalization of marijuana, immoral sexual experiments, sterilization or vasectomies, artificial contraception, and witchcraft”;

* a philosophically vegetarian bus driver who refused to hand out hamburger coupons as part of an agency’s promotion aimed at boosting ridership; and more.

And of course it arises routinely when people are fine with their job tasks, but have a religious objection to doing them on particular days (e.g., Saturdays and Fridays after sundown).

[MortMan]

She and other clerks tried to get the clerk’s name removed from the licenses before the decision. You are rationalizing a religious test for the office.

Read the constitution.

[stanne]

Is it against her religion?

[MortMan]

The sodomite union decision is worse than the abortion decision. In Roe, the court said “thou shalt not”, removing laws (wrongly). In sodomania, the court ordered states to violate their own definitions of marriage. They said “thou shalt, regardless of the actual written law”.

[MortMan]

Her standpoint is that granting a license for sodomite unions under her own name is the issue. She has apparently stated that processing paperwork without her personal authorization is an acceptable situation.

[Coronal]

No, I’m simply replying to the people who claim that the job changed on her without any warning. She was almost certainly aware of the possibilities when she chose to pursue the office.

[Half Vast Conspiracy]

 

A judge didn't arrest her.

[MortMan]

You are rationalizing the loss of her first amendment rights. She and others tried to remedy the issue before it happened.

But you desperately want to blame her.

No matter your “reasoning”, that is what you are espousing.

[GOPJ]

The Washington Post doesn't need to worry - we're creating hundreds of new Sanctuary Cities for communities that don't accept gay marriage.

[stanne]

In Catholicism, for instance, there is no marriage until there is matrimony and the marriage is valid until annulment by tge church

The church recognizes that people are no longer married civilly in a divorce but they are married in the church until the church looks at the case and makes that decision

Where is a civil marriage against this woman’s religion?

Homosexual marriage is damaging to society, culture and to the development of our kids. For instance, a child who learns about sex before they are of puberty age is traumatized, certainly exposure to even the idea of deviant sex is damaging to pre pubescent kids.

That’s the argument

That we have compromised judges on the Supreme Court who are biased as evidenced by their taking part in homosexual marriages is the problem. We should have demanded that tgey recuse themselves. Where are we on this?

It’s too late. The majority of the people in this country don’t want homosexual marriage but they don’t hate homosexuals
We have to be bold toward the propagandizing media and we have to be smart

If she can’t prove she’s being co record against her religious beliefs she’s out of luck. We all are

Catholic priests in the military had better get smart on their catechism. I’ve seen priests refuse to baptize babies until the parents are seen attending mass every Sunday for six months

They are outraged but they find another, renegade, priest so they can have a baptism party. But that kid will be judged catholic The priest rightly knows it’s spiritually dangerous for the child to be baptized and then led astray. The military can’t go after that priest. He’s right

This woman is not making clear what some stupid civil union not recognized by the church has to do with endangering her religiously

If she doesn’t like doing the job she’ll have to find another

Any nurse can not be forced to do an abortion but she’ll do very well to stay away from obstetrics

Our culture is under attack.

Fixing the judicial system is part of our job as civilians who rule the country instead of pretending we are in a monarchy

[stanne]

Unfortunately since we the people who are too busy have allowed the judicial system to become rogue did not prevent this stupid law she has to either marry people or get out of the job

Anyone would laugh at a nurse or restaurant worker for refusing to work on Sunday, the holy day when one is supposed to rest by tenet of the commandments the third one actually

And the catechism, for those Catholics
ARTICLE 3
THE THIRD COMMANDMENT

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work.90
The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.91

I personally still find it horrific that stores are open on Sundays. People laugh.

But people break commandments all week long and it is increasingly difficult to live according to the commandments homosexual unions is culturally very damaging but I suggest people take a look at how we dove this far down

[MortMan]

Got it. You support the religious test against christianity for county clerks in Kentucky.

[tumblindice]

Muslims v. Christians.
Well, let’s see now ... The Muslim knew going into her job that she would be expected to serve drinks, while the Christian never suspected she might be required to issue “marriage licenses” to homosexuals pretending to be married?

Just take the state completely out of the marriage business if the homos are going to insist upon this degrading and spectacular charade.

[stanne]

Don’t know what you said there.

Is civil marriage in this country Christian? It isn’t in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church recognizes matrimony not civil unions, living together, not civil marriages.

Here she is:
“On the stand ... Davis described herself as an Apostolic Christian who believes marriage is defined as the union of one man and one woman under the Bible — ‘God’s holy word’ — and said she contemplated her policy for months beforehand.”

This is where she quits her job and makes a case for herself from that point.

I don’t go working for an ob/gyn man and not do my job giving out birth control prescriptions. This country would do very well to stop birth control as proscribed by my church, but if I’m going to take on that fight I’m not going to do it from the front office of the doctor who pays me to give out birth control prescriptions and directions

This woman is not making a good case for herself. She should state exactly how following the law is putting her self in jeopardy and demand way beforehand that tgey find someone else to do Ruth Nader Ginsburg and Anthony kennedy’s dirty work.

And work to get this thing repealed

But separation of church and star goes both ways

And she’d better have an impeccable record of trying her best to follow all the laws of her religion or she is just a look who’s hair is so long she looks like a freak

[MortMan]

What I said is simple. She tried to remedy the issue - being the issuance of marriage licences under her own name and authority as an elected county clerk - before the issue arose.

So-called conservatives and (worse) christians who say she should resign or be persecuted are rationalizing the end of the God given right of exercising one’s religion recognized in the first amendment.

They are also endorsing an anti-religious test for public office, in clear violation of the constitution.

[MortMan]

And regarding imperfect vessels... is Paul a saint or not?

[stanne]

Well, there’s another view.

There are many violations in the workplace and in culture and society of Christian concerns and never a revolt.

No suddenly there’s a problem. This woman will not win this case because so called Christians have allowed so many infringements tgat society itself as deteriorated to the point of allowing homosexual marriage

This isn’t persecution

The law allows for abortion. Those kids that are being killed- that’s persecution

Women who are forced to have abortions or lose their jobs. That’s persecution.

Nurses and doctors in the military who are catholic, forced to participate in birth control are persecuted but they don’t know it because most don’t give a crap about the tenets of their religion. If they would say something, we might not be here. If they had, we certainly would be better informed

This homosexual marriage is in the realm of civil law not Christianity We gavevseparation of church and state and this is not Christian marriage

She just doesn’t have a case

The law is horrible bi think it could be worse tgan abortion in the way it destroys family, gender, innocence of childhood, not to mention an insult to God. But does marriage belong to the state?

In Catholicism it does not We have matrimony and there will not be a homosexual matrimony

[MortMan]

Got it. You can accept this fundamental transgression against religious freedom because others happened before it.

[stanne]

We are not on the same wavelength at all

The state has no business in marriage. Where in the constitution is there a ruling for marital unions

I don’t work for anyone who makes me work on Sunday do I get hired by them and then demand that they give me sunday off?

[stanne]

no

I’m saying that the courts look at it that way

She has no case

There are so many transgressions tgat are allowed, this was bound to happen

It’s the first they came for... Deal

But even then, no one can tell the courts where there is a transgression. These cases are being lost ll over the place. Get a clue

[MortMan]

No, we are not on the same wavelength. She is saying that authorizing sodomite unions under her name and personal authority is unacceptable.

The constitution says she doesn’t have to forfeit her religious views to be a county clerk.

You are espousing the idea she does, or she has to resign.

The Catholic church serves as an agent of the state by solemnizing civil marriage as an adjunct to matrimony. Under the viewpoint you have endorsed, Priests will be jailed for refusing to perform a sodomite union. And you seem to have no problem with it.