What Hill Do We Die On, Then? (Kim Davis and Religious Liberty)

American Conservative ^ | SEpt 4, 2015 | Rod Dreher

[yongin]

have said these past couple of days that as gay rights and the ideology at its heart continues to conquer our culture, I expect us small-o orthodox Christians to have to take a hard, sacrificial stand against the state and society, for the sake of religious liberty. Kim Davis’s situation, I’ve said, is not the hill to die on.

The reason for this is certainly contestable, but here it is, in a nutshell.

1. Kim Davis’s position is unwinnable. Nobody seriously expects her to get gay marriage overturned, or even to succeed in carving out a special zone of protection for public officials who, for reasons of conscience, refuse to carry out lawful decisions of the courts. Even if we believe that the Obergefell decision lacks moral legitimacy, there can be no doubt that as a matter of legal procedure, the Supreme Court’s decision is the law. Our side lost that battle decisively. Kim Davis’s stance, while it may be personally courageous, is going to result in another defeat, because it cannot be otherwise in our system. The only point of backing it is to flip the bird to the state and to the broader culture — something I have great sympathy for, but it’s a pointless gesture that can only hurt us in the battles to come.

[DaveyB]

It’s not what hill WE die on...

The question is what hill we finally marshal a defense. The GOPe is the surrender party, they in recent days have surrendered on homo-marriage, obama-care and are planning to Planed Parenthood immigration etc.. The GOPe own the french an apology for waving the white flag more than the the famed french. How much more ground will the GOPe give up before they fight back. You can not even discuss a hill to die on if you are as good as dead already.

[cripplecreek]

You fight every battle or you lose.

[RginTN]

Don’t fight for the 1st amendment. Then don’t fight for the 2nd amendment. Then don’t fight to keep Separation of Powers intact.

Soon nothing to fight for cause the Left has taken it all away.

[Guenevere]

Oh W
Would that be true

We seem to be doin the dying

[yongin]

The irony of this all. Kim Davis is Democratic politican. The judge, who sent her to jail, was appointed by Bush. The judge is the son of a conservative KY Senator, Jim Bunning.

Kim Davis’s son is a deputy clerk who refuses to process gay marriage license. The judge did not send him to jail because other deputy clerks were willing to process them for him.

[Moorings]

They want to make an example of her, humiliate her, for anyone else who does not stay on the plantation.

[cripplecreek]

Many times we can pick our fights overseas but we have to fight every battle here at home. The enemy is inside the wire and we can’t allow him to relax for even a second.

[DiogenesLamp]

Here is a very good rebuttal I saw at "Never yet melted."

A consensus appears to be developing among otherwise reasonable people that Kim Davis, of Rowan County fame, either needs to start issuing marriage licenses or quit her job.

For those just joining us, a county clerk in Kentucky is refusing to issue marriage licenses against her conscience and is also refusing to resign. Her name, which should be on a bronze plaque on the side of the courthouse, is Kim Davis. A federal judge has ordered her to appear in his courtroom Thursday to explain why Davis should not be held in contempt of court for refusing to issue marriage licenses.

But there is a difference between contempt of court and seeing that the courts have become contemptible. …

[Rod Dreher (9/1) wrote of Kim Davis’s stand: In the future, there will surely be hills worth dying on, so to speak, as Christians. This is not one of them.]

I want to begin by making an observation about that hill-to-die-on thing, but then move on to discuss the foundational principle that is at stake here. After that, I want to point out what it would look like if more government officials had the same understanding that Kim Davis is currently displaying — despite being opposed by all the intoleristas and also despite being abandoned by numerous Christians who admire her moxie but who don’t understand her moxie.

First, whenever we get to that elusive and ever-receding “hill to die on,” we will discover, upon our arrival there, that it only looked like a hill to die on from a distance. Up close, when the possible dying is also up close, it kind of looks like every other hill. All of a sudden it looks like a hill to stay alive on, covered over with topsoil that looks suspiciously like common ground.

So it turns out that surrendering hills is not the best way to train for defending the most important ones. Retreat is habit-forming. …

The point here is not just private conscience. The right to liberty of conscience is at play with florists, bakers, and so on. But Kim Davis is not just keeping herself from sinning, she is preventing Rowan County from sinning. That is part of her job.

Every Christian elected official should be determining, within the scope of their duties, which lines they will not allow the state to cross. When they come to that line, they should refuse to cross it because “this is against the law of God.” They should do this as part of their official responsibilities. This is part of their job. It is one of the things they swear to do when they take office.

This is nothing less than Calvin’s doctrine of the lesser magistrates (Institutes 4.20.22-32), which I would urge upon all and sundry as relevant reading material. And as Calvin points out, after Daniel — a Babylonian official — disobeyed the king’s impious edict, he denied that he had wronged the king in any way (Dan. 6:22-23).

[biff]

Oh, poor babies they are. Oh wait, they can go to the next town and get a ML. Most of the queers can from hundreds of miles around just to get their pound of flesh.

[W.]

Isn't it the truth. It's getting old, taking it in the shorts from the whole stupid world.

Time to turn this thing around!

Also, , and hello!

[Jan_Sobieski]

Yes and you lose every battle you refuse to fight.

[DiogenesLamp]

I agree. Also she is not allowing any marriage licenses to be processed for anyone. How many couples have planned and paid for weddings, at the cost of thousands of dollars, and now can’t get a license? How does that square with her personal religious liberty? And how are those tearful stories going to be portrayed in the media? She will be widely portrayed as a crackpot who is ruining people’s lives over her personal beliefs. And it will stick with a lot of people, and not just liberals.

I do not recognize you people. I am reminded of what Thomas Paine said.

THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.

This also seems appropriate.

[right way right]

This will be the hill that Trump's campaign dies on.

[ctdonath2]

THERE IS NO KENTUCKY LAW AUTHORIZING ISSUANCE OF MARRIAGE LICENSES.
SCOTUS vacated relevant KY law.
A federal judge, nor a state governor, can compel a county clerk to issue a licence which is undefined and unregulated in law.
What we have is straight up despotism.

This is the hill.

[Guenevere]

lol......Hello W.
It’s been a while

[Libloather]

[Lopeover]

I think she could end up in jail for a long time.

[skr]

They can get a license from another county.

[Lopeover]

It’s not the issue. Sorry, but it’s not.

[W.]

Things have certainly advanced from the old days when we started doing this, eh? Kinda cool, though. Nineteen-ninety-what?