Ben Carson: ‘We Don’t Need a Department of Veterans Affairs’

CNS ^ | August 28, 2015 | Melanie Hunter

[Jet Jaguar]

V A ping.

[DoughtyOne]

The facts are dismissive. I am merely addressing the facts.

This has nothing to do with whether he is a better man than Obama.

It does have something to do with the depth of his CEO type experience.

Nothing you have mentioned so far has changed my mind. Yours is not the only candidate in this boat.

[conservaKate]

Yes sir!

Too many people ... politicians in particular ... will praise active duty ... but piss all over the vet.

If we are going to have warfare ... there are going to be human costs that MUST be paid for. Vets deserve our continued support and we should not forsake our vets.

[SaraJohnson]

The DOD is abusing soldiers, too! When you are a vet, you are out from under the DOD.

[xzins]

There are good reasons for taking vets out from under DOD.

[xzins]

Ben Carson: Deptartment Of Education Should Monitor For Political Bias And Withhold Funding “I think the Department of Education should monitor institutions of higher education for political bias and withhold federal funding if it exists.” http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/ben-carson-deptartment-of-education-should-monitor-for-polit#.udG1YPg4J

I wonder why Ben Carson, as little as 2 months ago, had no plan to end the Department of Education, a truly worthless federal expenditure, but he has one for ending the Veterans Administration, a mission that clearly belongs to the Congress that authorizes war.

And I wonder why he has no announced plan to end the federal endowment for the arts???

Why do these politicians always go after the most deserving first?

[SaraJohnson]

Ben is a brilliant NEUROSURGEON. He knows little to nothing about Washington and the problems facing this country. He’d be totally dependent on insiders (GOPe) to tell him what to do.

[huldah1776]

The whole country needs the Messiah.

http://www.gq.com/long-form/male-military-rape

[dragnet2]

If a man with his background looks at the VA system and says, “I think I know a better way to serve the vets...” I am going to pay attention.

Maybe he should opt for the VA top job? Maybe under a Trump Administration.☺

[donna]

The government could buy vets a private medical insurance policy and save money. Give them what Senators get.

[defconw]

Exactly not to mention that a veteran has to get his own advocate to fight the VA for the very things he was promised. Meanwhile down at the welfare office......

Totally backward screwed up mess of a country right now!

[huldah1776]

Was just reading the thread about the new will smith movie “Concussion.” There are vets who were hit with IEDs and supposedly they were not documented. One Marine mom was hoping to find the guys in her son’s unit for confirmation. Why doesn’t the DOD go through the reports? A blasted hummer or whatever they were in had to be reported as inoperable? Repair records? Too much work.

The same excuse used by a physicians assistant who didn’t have a vet in a medical center sent to a hospital and died later that night. Get rid of the unions.

[Albion Wilde]

Nothing you have mentioned so far has changed my mind. Yours is not the only candidate in this boat.

Since I wasn't attempting to change your mind about your candidate preference, and have another candidate preference myself, it just goes to show how very haughty you sound over nothing. It doesn't become you to inaccurately portray this very good man because you have a different preference, as in your claim that he only had 5 people under his leadership. When I dealt with his office on behalf of my organization seeking him as a speaker 15 years ago, he had a special assistant only for his speaking engagements. He has written ten books and has had a very active life as a philanthropist and a public intellectual long before he even stopped doing brain surgery.

Even though I prefer someone else, if he should be nominated, I would have no hesitation voting for him, knowing that there is no perfect candidate and no human who can do that job to please everyone. The attacks from the left will be overwhelming regardless. No need for the right to pile on.

[defconw]

My husband had a mortar explode next to his head. No record of it. No treatment for it. Then he got hit in the head with a large sheet of plywood while recovering from an infected tooth removal. So to me that is two TBI’s they just flat out ignore. It took 45 years and a move to our current state to have him tested for Agent Orange. He was infantry he was in country. He has the medals and the paperwork to prove it. Does not matter. In fact no medical records from Vietnam at all.

[huldah1776]

You know, it shouldn’t matter WHERE it happened or how or when! I go to the doctor because I don’t feel good! I’m slow on the uptake. If the VA is going to take care of vets, it shouldn’t matter what it is. I guess private docs do the same thing though, “It’s all in your head” mentality. no pun intended.

Good news is that neuroscience is growing like crazy. Lots of new stuff. Hey, check out HBOT and find a place that gives treatments to vets for free.

I know a former SEAL who is fighting the agent orange symptoms, too. At least they are now acknowledging it.

[defconw]

Oh they'll treat him free for anything, but! They won't compensate his for the problems that have developed because of it. The reason being, it's not service connected if you don't have the documents to prove it was.

And where are those documents? Well the excuse given was that his Vietnam records were in a fire in Missouri. The only problem is those records were missing prior to the fire. My guess is they are in the South China Sea.

[DoughtyOne]

Nothing you have mentioned so far has changed my mind. Yours is not the only candidate in this boat.

Since I wasn't attempting to change your mind about your candidate preference, and have another candidate preference myself, it just goes to show how very haughty you sound over nothing.

From my end of the conversation, it appeared you were trying to sell Carson to the forum and me.  Your refusal to acknowledge he doesn't have the sort of CEO type experience another person does have, seemed to indicate a die hard follower unable to admit to themselves a tenet of reality.  What other normal conclusion would someone take away from your responses?

It doesn't become you to inaccurately portray this very good man because you have a different preference, as in your claim that he only had 5 people under his leadership.

In my comment, I stated 5 to 10 people.  I believe I tossed in the work probably in there as well.  I wasn't trying to misrepresent Carson.  I was merely explaining what a physician's office staff generally consists of.

You and several others pointed out Carson's department head position, as you should have.  I acknowedged this, but I also pointed out that is not the same type of experience a self-funded CEO has.

This isn't evidence of me being haughty.  It's evidence of me addressing reality.

When I dealt with his office on behalf of my organization seeking him as a speaker 15 years ago, he had a special assistant only for his speaking engagements.

He has written ten books and has had a very active life as a philanthropist and a public intellectual long before he even stopped doing brain surgery.

These sorts of things are impressive.  He seems to have been a stellar individual.  Let me put this another way perhaps you can understand.

If he was the best concert pianist in the world, would that mean that he could walk on to any tennis court and win against any opponent?  No.  Although far afield from his professional experience, it's the same sort of comparison.

Being a stellar neuro surgeon, having a department head position, lecturing, being a philantropist..., it isn't the same thing as being a self-funded CEO of a massive operation.  It isn't the same thing as running a multi-billion dollar organization, doing $100 billion dollar deals, and employing over 22,500 people.

I was careful not to trash Carson's past experience.  I believe he was an exemplary individual.  I just don't see him as a presidential level individual.    

Even though I prefer someone else, if he should be nominated, I would have no hesitation voting for him, knowing that there is no perfect candidate and no human who can do that job to please everyone.

If it came to this situation, I could vote for him also.  It would not change my mind that he was not the right man for the position.

The attacks from the left will be overwhelming regardless. No need for the right to pile on.

Pointing out that Carson does not have self-funded CEO experience is not piling on.  It's merely making a point.  It's a valid point.

This nation is in dire straights.  It needs someone who has had a lot of self-funded big business CEO experience.  I have said this when evaluating other candidates.  We need to get the government spending under control.  We need to confront other economic issues.  I know of only one man that has this sort of experience, and the high level contacts to help him address them over the next four year term.

[Albion Wilde]

This nation is in dire straights [sic]. It needs someone who has had a lot of self-funded big business CEO experience.

It appears we agree on who should be president. You jumped to an incorrect conclusion and then attempted to hammer it home.

Your refusal to acknowledge he doesn't have the sort of CEO type experience another person does have, seemed to indicate a die hard follower unable to admit to themselves a tenet of reality. What other normal conclusion would someone take away from your responses?

Any "refusal" was in your mind only — I clarified your inaccurately belittling charaterizations of Dr. Carson. Pardon my loyalty to the reputation of a man who made his name in my state and with whom I've had the privilege of acquaintance, which is the reason for my wanting to make sure he is accurately assessed as more than what you mistakenly called merely "a physician", i.e. ..."I was merely explaining what a physician's office staff generally consists of."

Nothing about Carson is "general"; his life and skills are greatly exceptional. He is a specialist who was appointed head of pediatric brain surgery at Johns Hopkins University Hospital, usually one of the top one or two hospitals in the nation, at the age of 35 — after having grown up with an illiterate single mother in a ghetto. His skills required enormous accountability, since the outcomes were obvious for all to see, and demanded excellence far, far beyond any conceivable accusation of affirmative action. His decisions were life vs death, or health vs disability, with profound impacts on his child patients and their families. He worked with predominantly white colleagues and patients but also with patients of many other ethnicities from the U.S. and other parts of the world. His accomplishments should be respected.

His accomplishments have given him confidence — from making countless life-and-death decisions on his feet under the crushing pressure of leaning over the open skull of a child's diseased brain for 8 to 12 hours straight while leading a team of surgeons in the OR. He has called on and conferred with other experts worldwide to make individual treatment plans. As his books have revealed, he set out not to gain fame, but to gain wisdom, starting each day with reading from the Book of Proverbs throughout his life. He has humility as well as confidence. People trust him because he has been grateful to God for the gift of having held people's lives in his hands.

Confidence is one thing Obama is missing, replaced by a false front of hubris and narcissism. Confidence was what Dubya was missing and what Jeb is missing, since they had their lives handed to them. Confidence is the "they can't take that away from me" quality that Carson shares with Trump, and one of the reasons Trump obviously respects Carson and is probably considering him for Vice President. Cruz is our conservative favorite, but he comes off as a wonk/nerd, even though he's probably not. And perceptions rule the swing vote.

The perceptions of the less-informed reader are also why I am concerned about how we speak of the various candidates here, this early in the race. Many besides us "regulars" read FR, and draw conclusions — during every election cycle, FR readership peaks. It's up to us to speak accurately.

Let me put this another way perhaps you can understand.

Oh, really? I'm having no trouble understanding. That and other condescending remarks, such as "What other normal conclusion would someone take away from your responses?" and "It's evidence of me addressing reality" imply that you absolutely know what "normal" and "reality" are. I have demonstrated that you have not known the depth of his reality as a neurosurgeon; nor is your normal the same as everyone else's normal. My normal is having known about Dr. Carson rather better and for 15 years longer than many who read here. That doesn't equate to your having leapt to the conclusion that I am campaigning for his nomination at this time.

If it came to this situation, I could vote for him also. It would not change my mind that he was not the right man for the position.

Again, we agree more than we disagree. It is entirely possible for me to want Dr. Carson to be assessed properly and still be personally in favor of Trump as the nominee, which I am at this point; but the race is far from over. So I believe we do no one a service by diminishing any of the other candidates who have demonstrated a willingness to denounce politcal correctness and uphold traditional values and American exceptionalism, as Carson has.

That said, I salute your long and generous contributions to FR as a poster and fundraiser.

[DoughtyOne]

This nation is in dire straights [sic]. It needs someone who has had a lot of self-funded big business CEO experience.

It appears we agree on who should be president. You jumped to an incorrect conclusion and then attempted to hammer it home.

I don't believe I jumped to anything.  Your defense of Carson sent a false impression.  I reacted like any normal person would.

Your refusal to acknowledge he doesn't have the sort of CEO type experience another person does have, seemed to indicate a die hard follower unable to admit to themselves a tenet of reality. What other normal conclusion would someone take away from your responses?

Any "refusal" was in your mind only — I clarified your inaccurately belittling charaterizations of Dr. Carson.

Inaccurate belittling?  Here's what a rush to belittle the guy existed of in part.

I recognize Carson was an intelligent man. I’ve not trashed him on that count or about his politics, which as far as I know, I agree with. And as for the work he did, I don’t have an issue with that as far as him doing a good job.

What a withering character assasination of the guy huh.

Pardon my loyalty to the reputation of a man who made his name in my state and with whom I've had the privilege of acquaintance, which is the reason for my wanting to make sure he is accurately assessed as more than what you mistakenly called merely "a physician", i.e. ..."I was merely explaining what a physician's office staff generally consists of."

Nothing about Carson is "general"; his life and skills are greatly exceptional. He is a specialist who was appointed head of pediatric brain surgery at Johns Hopkins University Hospital, usually one of the top one or two hospitals in the nation, at the age of 35 — after having grown up with an illiterate single mother in a ghetto. His skills required enormous accountability, since the outcomes were obvious for all to see, and demanded excellence far, far beyond any conceivable accusation of affirmative action. His decisions were life vs death, or health vs disability, with profound impacts on his child patients and their families. He worked with predominantly white colleagues and patients but also with patients of many other ethnicities from the U.S. and other parts of the world. His accomplishments should be respected.

He was exceptional at what he did, but it was not CEO level experience using his own funds having to make decisions on economic matters day in and day out for over forty years.

He was a department head in a hospital.  He served in that capacity under the actual CEO of the organization.

His accomplishments have given him confidence — from making countless life-and-death decisions on his feet under the crushing pressure of leaning over the open skull of a child's diseased brain for 8 to 12 hours straight while leading a team of surgeons in the OR. He has called on and conferred with other experts worldwide to make individual treatment plans. As his books have revealed, he set out not to gain fame, but to gain wisdom, starting each day with reading from the Book of Proverbs throughout his life. He has humility as well as confidence. People trust him because he has been grateful to God for the gift of having held people's lives in his hands.

Once again, great comments.  Once again, not the type of experience we need for the president at this point in time.  We need a person who has had CEO level experience with his own neck on the line as to whether his economic fortune would grow or wither.

Why?  Because this is the mindset our next president needs to operate from.

This next president is not going to need to be an expert in brain surgery.  He's not going to have to be an expert in leading other physicians during brain surgery.  He's not going to need experience in international medical circles.

All these comments related to what his experince is, are nice.  They are also irrelevant.

Confidence is one thing Obama is missing, replaced by a false front of hubris and narcissism. Confidence was what Dubya was missing and what Jeb is missing, since they had their lives handed to them. Confidence is the "they can't take that away from me" quality that Carson shares with Trump, and one of the reasons Trump obviously respects Carson and is probably considering him for Vice President. Cruz is our conservative favorite, but he comes off as a wonk/nerd, even though he's probably not. And perceptions rule the swing vote.

I agree with the concept of confidence you attribute to Carson, Trump, and Obama.  I would hope Trump is not considering him as his vice presidential pick.  Carson is more qualified to be Surgeon General, not a V. P. or later President.

The perceptions of the less-informed reader are also why I am concerned about how we speak of the various candidates here, this early in the race. Many besides us "regulars" read FR, and draw conclusions — during every election cycle, FR readership peaks. It's up to us to speak accurately.

I can explain my perception of a man, and you can come and explain things where I was off.  I will agree when I have mischaracterized someone.  I did it here when you pointed out his department head status.  At the same time, I know what department head status is, and it is entirely different than being the CEO of an institution.  And being the CEO of an institution is entirely different than being the CEO of your own business with your own money on the line.  Carson is at least two steps away from the kind of experience Trump has.  And if there were middle managers over Carson as well, then that two steps grows to at least three.

Let me put this another way perhaps you can understand.

Oh, really? I'm having no trouble understanding. That and other condescending remarks, such as "What other normal conclusion would someone take away from your responses?" and "It's evidence of me addressing reality" imply that you absolutely know what "normal" and "reality" are. I have demonstrated that you have not known the depth of his reality as a neurosurgeon; nor is your normal the same as everyone else's normal. My normal is having known about Dr. Carson rather better and for 15 years longer than many who read here. That doesn't equate to your having leapt to the conclusion that I am campaigning for his nomination at this time.

At no time have I said that Carson is a closet Leftist, has been a failure at his profession in any capacity, or has any negative attributes to point to.  I have tried to be fair to him.  Instead I have kept my comments focused on CEO experience.  That's the issue I am addressing.

You have not expressed an understanding that Carson's experience is not the type of experience we need in our next president.  For this reason I tried to explain the concept of a person being extremely proficient at one thing, but being recognized as not proficient in another.  Ultimately, that's exactly what I see here.  I don't think that is an outlandish position to take.

BTW, you have expressed your support for Trump, so I realize down deep inside, on some level, you must agree with me.  That hasn't gone un-noticed.

If it came to this situation, I could vote for him also. It would not change my mind that he was not the right man for the position.

Why did I say this?  I said it because if it became Carson against Clinton, Biden, Sanders, or some other Leftist flunky, Carson would be better.  IMO, he still wouldn't be the best man for the job, and it is my duty to seek out that best person and support them.  If my comments are inaccurate about Carson, by all means correct me.  If they aren't, then acknowledge it.

Again, we agree more than we disagree.

I wouldn't doubt that.

 It is entirely possible for me to want Dr. Carson to be assessed properly and still be personally in favor of Trump as the nominee, which I am at this point; but the race is far from over. So I believe we do no one a service by diminishing any of the other candidates who have demonstrated a willingness to denounce politcal correctness and uphold traditional values and American exceptionalism, as Carson has.

Once again, I don't think Carson is a bad man.  I am a Seventh-Day Adventist myself.  I'm not a practicing member right now, but that's where my loyaties are as far as religions go.  What impetus would there be for me to trash Carson unfairly?  If anything I would support the man based on the fact he is a member of a religious organization whose tenets I respect a great deal.  I still have to be honest with myself and other members of the public, that I don't think being a brilliant, nice, capable person, makes one instantly a sure fit for the presidency.

That said, I salute your long and generous contributions to FR as a poster and fundraiser.

I think that was very nice of you to say during a disagreement.  I salute you for doing so.  It shows a lot of class.

I've been calling it as I see it.  I'm not here to trash Carson or you.  I want to be fair to Carson.  That's why I don't trash him for anything.  I address what I see his executive experince to be.  It's impressive.  It's just not as impressive, in some ways.  In other ways it's obviously more impressive.  I respect the guy.

[Albion Wilde]

"I salute your long and generous contributions to FR as a poster and fundraiser."

I think that was very nice of you to say during a disagreement. I salute you for doing so. It shows a lot of class.

I don't believe I jumped to anything. Your defense of Carson sent a false impression. I reacted like any normal person would.

It would have been nice for you to return the respect I showed you by taking responsibility for having misinterpreted my words instead of insisting that your point of view is the only possible way to be a "normal person", and blaming me for your misinterpretation that I was calling for his nomination. Has anyone else ever suggested that your approach to discussion may be inflexible, preconceived or resistant to any other possibility but your own point of view?

Other than that, we do seem to agree in general, and there is no need to continue your hammering on about his degree or type of executive experience, even though it is you who are insisting I have attempted to clarified it for the purpose of supporting him as the nominee, when in fact (as I have stated several times) I put it forward to recognize his extraordinary accomplishments in his field more accurately, including the ways in which his skills may lend him an understanding of how to approach the job should he end up with it by unforeseen events, and why it is important to stop shooting into the circle, either as a conservative or as a freeper.

So I'm done with this now. I'm trying to get you to hear what I say accurately. You're trying to get me to agree with your distortions of my intentions. Ain't working.