Posted on 08/29/2015 1:47:44 PM PDT by robowombat
Why would he drive down there at all when he could have simply paid the delivery person...that is if your version of events is correct.
Honestly, I don't understand why any FReeper would be calling for the general's head for crimes he didn't commit.
Don't be a jackass and put words in my mouth...my comment was directed toward the other three adults who were present.
You would be mistaken. You have heard one of the several variants of legends that are really not correct.
Another story is that some divisions saw to it that successful rifle company commanders received a Silver Star at some point in their tour. That story isn’t correct either, but certainly rifle company commanders tended to be noticed by division commanders who were frequently overhead in a helicopter and those division commanders had the authority to award a Silver Star.
The criticism that the Army awarded decorations too frequently in Vietnam is valid. But the abuse was usually with the Bronze Star and the Air Medal. The precedent with the liberal award of the Air Medal was set by the Air Corps in WWII and carried forward to Vietnam. After both World War II and Korea, the Bronze Star was awarded to all receipients of the Combat Infantryman’s Badge, but this did not occur after Vietnam. The Bronze Star was commonly awarded to combat soldiers who completed a full year long tour. The Bronze Star was almost destroyed as a meaningful award by the frequency that it was given to people who were in administrative and logistics job and never ventured outside their comfortable rear cantonment.
For the top three valor awards: Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross, and Silver Star; the award rate for Vietnam was similar to that of WWII and Korea, considering troops in combat, days of combat, and casualties. In Vietnam, brigade and above commanders were veterans of WWII and/or Korea and they knew what the informal standard had hold in those wars. In addition, while Vietnam had an insurgency component, the U.S. Army was primarily fighting a conventional war against the regular army of North Vietnam. Big fights involved officers up to the battalion commander level and, with helicopters, up to brigade, division, and corps level commanders who often got more involved in the fight than they should have.
Certainly the current practice is very different. The old days for the Bronze Star, Air Medal, and Distinguished Flying Cross as well is gone, that’s a good thing. But in my opinion, the reaction of the Army to the abuse of awards has gone to far in the case of the Silver Star, DSC, and MH. The Marine Corps, with about 30% of the ground combat force in Iraq and Afghanistan has awarded the Navy Cross more than twice more frequently than the DSC. The British Army, with about the same force level as the USMC has awarded their equivalent award, the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross, at even a higher level. The Brits and the Marines have well known reputation for being tough with valor awards.
In my view, the bureaucrats, who have never seen combat and never will have taken over the awards system and combat soldiers who well deserve valor awards are not getting them.
Horror stories about awards can be found for all wars and for various reasons including politics, ambition, and the wrong people getting the credit. Combat is ugly in more than one aspect. Bill Livsey earned the awards he wears, and you need to be careful about pointing a finger at an individual about a general notion that you might have.
Guilt issues? Over what? Decades of distinguished service to his country? Cut the far-left wing armchair psychologist garbage.
99.9 % of those of us who served in RVN did so honorably snd have lived honorable lives since.
Drop the guilt garbsge.
Thanks, Welcome to FR!
FR is an open forum where ya never know who will
Posit what.. But to those who know me and FR, they usually get my drift.. Hang around, noon. ;-)
All my brothers were Army.
Guilt issues? Over what? Decades of distinguished service to his country? Cut the far-left wing armchair psychologist garbage.
99.9 % of those of us who served in RVN did so honorably snd have lived honorable lives since.
Drop the guilt garbsge.
I guess we’ll agree to disagree. I’ve read many citations for valor awards from past wars. Those same actions these days would get a Soldier a slap on the ass and an “atta boy.”
Maybe you should try reading what actually happened. Then maybe you wouldn’t have to look so ignorant.
Two points:
Your observation that a slap on the ass and an “atta boy” is certainly correct for these days. Where we differ is that you apparently think that should be the norm and I believe that we should do what we did in past wars.
Secondly, the ability of the Adjutant to compose a citation usually has very little relation to the actual act of valor. That’s what wrong with a bunch of civilian nerds in the Pentagon wordsmithing the award packet and overruling the recommendation of the chain of command on the ground.
Have you noticed that the growth in awards in both in numbers and in type have all been with non-combat awards for people who have never heard a shot in anger.
R u drunk or just a troll?
USMC ‘72 to FoRever.
Since you attack senior US Military, can you prove your military sercice?
I have known many Marines. You sound more like a far left aanti-military leftist troll.
It is unfortunate that you are unable to see that he did not stiff the driver, nor was there any reason for you to have believed that.
I’ll try small words
I. Do. Not. Care. What. You. Think.
I know.
The opportunity to demean a man who dedicated his life to the service of his country just can’t be passed up by one such as yourself.
.
Mac is a sick one.
He’s showing himself how important he is.
a drunken bastard who thinks he’s too good to pay his own way and attacks the delivery driver and then resists arrest is worthless. His resume means nothing if his current activity is criminal. How hard is this to undersrand?
Great!
Hang yourself out to dry you fool!
How did you ever end up at FR?
.
What is your basis for assuming that all of the witnesses are lying? Why would the delivery driver say the general did not grab him by the throat, if he had? Why would the driver say the general had presented two forms of payment, and then sent his employee to the restaurant to pay the bill, if he hadn’t? If the general did all the things you claim he did, why would all the witnesses, including the alleged victim, lie to protect him?
And the one question I would most like an answer to: Why are you so vested in this honorable general being guilty, when all the evidence shows he’s innocent?
So I noticed! And he’s not the only one. I’ve never seen so many Jane Fonda wanna-bes on FreeRepublic.
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