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To: Auntie Dem
This is a transcription, so the comma reflects what the transcriber understood the person to mean. Mind you, the Senate offices would approve the transcription. From the broader context, he's listing, not making a parenthetical statement. First, he says the 14th amendment does not create new law, but is only declaratory. Thus, older precedents apply.

"and that must lead us to the conclusion that every person born in the United States is a natural-born citizen of such States, except it may be that children born on our soil to temporary sojourners or representatives of foreign Governments, are native-born citizens of the United States."

At first blush. United States v Wong Kim seems to establish that all children born on US soil, even of aliens, are granted citizenship. But the actual text clarifies an important point:

The fundamental principle of the common law with regard to English nationality was birth within the allegiance, also called "ligealty," "obedience," "faith," or "power" of the King. The principle embraced all persons born within the King's allegiance and subject to his protection. Such allegiance and protection were mutual -- as expressed in the maxim protectio trahit subjectionem, et subjectio protectionem -- and were not restricted to natural-born subjects and naturalized subjects, or to those who had taken an oath of allegiance, but were predicable of aliens in amity so long as they were within the kingdom. Children, born in England, of such aliens were therefore natural-born subjects. But the children, born within the realm, of foreign ambassadors, or the children of alien enemies, born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the King's dominions, were not natural-born subjects because not born within the allegiance, the obedience, or the power, or, as would be said at this day, within the jurisdiction, of the King.
Now, illegal aliens may not be an occupying army, and as Christians we would pause before labeling them enemies, but the point is that their loyalty remains to their homeland, not to the United States, as they have neither renounced their prior citizenship, nor taken any action towards aquiring U.S. citizenship, nor acquiesced to U.S. law upon entering the U.S. So even if they're not included in the precise wording of who was denied U.S. citizenship at birth ("enemies", "foreign diplomats," etc.), they are certainly included in the reasoning of who was denied U.S. citizenship at birth ("not born within the allegiance, the obedience, or the power, or, as would be said at this day, within the jurisdiction" of the government*.) *In the quote, the government is represented by the King, but the context clearly intends to apply that to the U.S. government.
14 posted on 08/27/2015 7:58:31 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus
Also referencing British common law in US v Wong Kim:
"In Udny v. Udny, (1869) L.R. 1 H.L. Sc. 441, the point decided was one of inheritance, depending upon the question whether the domicil of the father was in England or in Scotland, he being in either alternative a British subject. Lord Chancellor Hatherley said: "The question of naturalization and of allegiance is distinct from that of domicil."

16 posted on 08/27/2015 8:02:37 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

Zactly.

Anyone who is not a Citizen or permanent resident is a transient alien, at a minimum...

They cannot be conscripted into war and are therefor not under the jurisdiction of the United States, in that regard, otherwise they would be a full citizen.

Further, the United States cannot represent them in foreign affairs with Kings, Potentates, Ambassadors or even at the Embassy level, to petition for relief of any sort for a citizen.

That responsibility and purview would remain with their country of actual citizenship. Only their government could represent them...


28 posted on 08/27/2015 9:45:43 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: dangus
This is a transcription, so the comma reflects what the transcriber understood the person to mean.

Good point.

Mind you, the Senate offices would approve the transcription.

Not a good point insofar as it relates to the meaning of Howard's statement. Seriously, do you think after the pages and pages of transcriptions were typeset, someone went and checked that every comma was in its proper place?

On the opening post you truncated his words in a significant way:

"This will not of course include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person."

"Foreigners, aliens" is repetitive; they mean the same things. The repetition is rhetorical. "Who belong to the families of ambassadors" qualifies "foreigner (aliens)." Is every foreigner excluded? No. Only "foreigners who belong to the families of ambassadors." Howard is pointing how how the Amendment is declaratory of existing law, and "existing law" (the common law provided for this exception).

"But will include every other class of persons" can hardly be reduced to meaning "only citizens." Only a very narrow class of foreigners is excluded (ambassadors); "every other class of person" is included.

At first blush. United States v Wong Kim seems to establish that all children born on US soil, even of aliens, are granted citizenship.

It's hardly just first blush: that point is hammered home every way and Sunday throughout the 50 plus page opinion.

Now, illegal aliens may not be an occupying army, and as Christians we would pause before labeling them enemies, but the point is that their loyalty remains to their homeland, not to the United States, as they have neither renounced their prior citizenship, nor taken any action towards aquiring U.S. citizenship,

This point fails both on fact and law. The argument can be made that an illegal alien desperate fleeing persecution or poverty in his/her home country has little allegiance (in the sense of fealty) to that country. Whereas, the legal alien here on an extended work visa or green card may well intend to return home to his/her home country (to which the person retains permanent allegiance.

In any event, consider this portion of the WKA opinion:

The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: the Fourteenth Amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. The Amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born, within the territory of the United States, of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States. Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States. His allegiance to the United States is direct and immediate, and, although but local and temporary, continuing only so long as he remains within our territory, is yet, in the words of Lord Coke in Calvin's Case, 7 Rep. 6a, "strong enough to make a natural subject, for if he hath issue here, that issue is a natural-born subject;" and his child, as said by Mr. Binney in his essay before quoted, "if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural-born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle." It can hardly be denied that an alien is completely subject to the political jurisdiction of the country in which he resides[.}

The legal/illegal distinction simply doesn't bear on the question of jurisdiction. Both are subject to U.S. jurisdiction (save for ambassadors). One can't read "jurisdiction" to mean one thing when talking about legal aliens and then claim it means something else when talking about illegals.

Nor would it seem transience is a meaningful distinction, given the language above explicitly saying children born of aliens present here but temporarily are still citizens.

I get the point that illegality and anchor babies are abusive. But the answer is Amendment.

42 posted on 08/27/2015 12:45:59 PM PDT by CpnHook
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